Not putting this guy on blast, and I realize this will sound really fucking weird to my followers because I usually never say this, but- Christ, this is a very White opinion. No, actually when your family or loved ones are struggling with addiction you *do* have an obligation to try and help.
When your family is struggling, when those you are close to are struggling, you have an obligation to try and pick them up and help them get well even if doing so hurts you, because they will do the same for you because that is what being family, being close friends, *is*. Not 'damn that sucks, gl'
Sometimes, you do have to cut people off until they're better, but that's something you do when you've exhausted your other options, not out of the gun.
I say this is a very White opinion because I overhear this attitude a lot among suburban white kids when I'm doing storytelling at events and in a lot of places- when your friends and family are struggling, your obligation begins and ends with vague "positive vibes" and then fobbing them off 1/2
2/2 on a professional, like their problems and worries are dirty dishes you want to hire a maid to clean up. It's of a type with the people who respond to basically any complaint or commentary on mental health with "You should get a therapist", like they want to outsource human feeling to another.
It's this very atomized way of thinking- seeing the bonds that tie people together as a chore to engage in and not as a natural process of two souls sharing the same time and place.
It's also, I feel, a reflection of- I don't want to call it "toxic positivity", I despise that phrasing, and I'm not even sure it's the same thing. I think it's more of a fear of ever having to engage with the reality of negative feelings- of pain, of death, of sorrow. So you banish them.
this whole thread is basically how I feel about the dating discourse from a few days ago. in no small part due to “emotional labor” and concept creep, people are commodifying the fundamental aspects of close relationships… the things that make them special.
Look, it was me, I'll own it. I'm white, I'm also an alcoholic. It was in response to a post that said (in part) "I think its very sad that the people in his life couldn't keep him together, if only for their sakes". That seems VERY much like putting the onus on family to keep an addict upright.
While I agree that a good support system is important for recovery, I don't believe it can be the responsibility of the people around an addict to control or fix them. They shouldn't abandon them, but sacrificing themselves to the effort of someone else's sobriety is counterproductive.
I didn't mean to imply that loved ones shouldn't take part in the recovery of someone they care about, my point was that it's not their responsibility to heal someone, especially if would harm them in the process. But I might have misunderstood the original post as well. I hope that makes sense.
I think our cultures are extremely different, and you have your view, and I have mine.
I just want you to understand that I'm from a culture where we have a deep sense of responsibility for our community, and what you're saying is, like, elementally offensive to me. Maybe you mean it another way.
What I hear when you say this is "It is all on that person who is sick that he makes himself well, and that if someone leaves him to lie in the street, there is no blame or guilt on anyone. Even if that person is his own brother or father or mother or sister, they have done nothing evil."
I think the "onus", if you want to call it that, is on everyone. When someone falls off the wagon it's everybody's fault. That doesn't make anyone in the situation evil, it's just how it is. When we stumble we're supposed to catch each other.
Yeah and I read your thread, and you're absolutely right. I guess I just believe, from being inside those rooms and hearing people talk, that when an addict doesn't want to recover, there's not much loved ones can do. There's a line between helping and enabling that's very blurry. I've met a lot
Of people that suffered because of an addict in their family that they thought was their responsibility to heal. Yes, you should be there for your family, however you define that, but ultimately, recovery is a choice they have to make. Sometimes, the best thing you can do is let them fail and be
And I do understand that, and I believe that you can't help someone who doesn't think they're sick all on your own. Like I said, I think we have different cultures and think about things differently.
Agreed. I only wish everyone who suffered addiction could have the kind of community and family support you talk about. I was very fortunate that my family was there for me in a way that wasn't as common as it should be. Sobriety is a group effort, and the bigger the group, the better the results.
The problem with I have with this is, sometimes families and communities suck. I didn’t pick my family or the community, and I don’t appreciate when I’m expected to care about them more than anyone else, especially when they are abusive or frankly evil. I’m more likely help a community I chose.
Okay, I don't know what to tell you, if my community didn't stick together I wouldn't be here. I have family members that I don't like, they don't like me, we help each other anyways.
I just don't see my community as opt-out at all, in so small part because the government has given me a little piece of paper that tells me I'm a member of the Eastern Band of the Cherokee Indian and that is an irrevocable citizenship.
It is possible to have a community that is toxic enough that you need to sever yourself from it, but that is also not something that should be your first go-to. Reconnecting with my sister has been downright transformative.
No, I agree with you. It's part of your core point above; moving on from your community is something of a privilege when, like... you can just leave and not be worried about your community continuing to exist at all or not.
And I wouldn’t be here if I couldn’t reject them. One of my firmest beliefs if the most basic freedom of movement and self-autonomy. This is why I really could never be a socialist.
I'm not arguing for a Confucian thing where you owe your parents eternal fealty for giving birth to you. I am saying there is a bond there that cannot be casually ignored.
I am going to assume that breaking that bond was a serious matter for you and I would never judge you for that, but I judge those who treat their bonds with others casually and callously.
I doesn’t help that other communities I’ve joined or tried to have affinity with have all been incredibly toxic. Whether it’s implicit or overt bigotry that refuses to correct itself, ideological rigidity (and that’s really alienating), cults of personality, or expectations of asym sacrifice.
I think there's a threshold at which a family could give up on their loved ones' rehabilitation, but only if said loved one is placed in a quality rehab institution and after said family has exhausted all of their efforts
Like I said, sometimes you do have to cut people off. But I think that's a lot like cutting off a limb- you only do it when you're certain the alternative is worse.
I think that's true, but I also think there's a lot of people who have this attitude completely unexamined who don't have those beliefs, and sometimes don't even come from a background with those beliefs. It's kind of like this redefinition of "self-care" to justify all kinds of crap.
You need to take care of yourself, but a lot of the time these "self-care" talks slip into just being selfish, and the above is a prime example of that. Community just doesn't work if you aren't willing to reach out to others.
The MyPillow Guy, actually, which is why I'm talking about it over here to try and disentangle this conversation from the specific guy being an asshole (which, guess what: most drug addicts are assholes when they're on drugs!)
