don't want to be flippant about the latest creator "cancellation" that's making the rounds, bc it's legit heavy stuff (and people should be wary of triggers if they look into what I'm referring to)
but do people like... not expect artists to be bad people now? like not ever? I don't mean forgiving
If you regularly have parasocial relationships with creatives whose work you appreciate, then probably yeah. Not defending it but like for a lot of people being a fan is about the experience of being the fan, about the fantasy parasocial connection, and it does feel like a betrayal when shattered.
I may be missing some context that was intentionally left out about this particular artist, although I'm a little cautious about saying "what did you expect?" because, I don't know, I feel like that is kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy that creates broken stairs.
I get what you're saying. I'm understanding Ellie's comments to be about this Good Person vs Bad Person and the consumer can tell because the Work is Good until the Creator is shown to be Problematic and then we can all tear our hair and throw sand in our eyes. I think. +
like, people are generally mixed and occasionally someone creates something that resonates but that doesn't automatically mean they're a good person, so we don't have to wrap our entire selves around the work?
I'm kinda thinking about how, for so long, Joanne was seen as this epitome of Goodness, and then when she revealed herself, everyone started combing through her books to go "HERE!!! IT WAS RIGHT HERE THAT SHE WAS SHIT ALL ALONG!" while accounts like Mean Fat Girl cried in vindication.
I mean, "JKR is a bit of a mean person" was definitely common knowledge before
some people in the fandom thought really highly of her in what I assume was an aspirational way/just impressed by the conventional success narrative
I don't think *most* fans really cared that much
like that's one thing that's been dissonant to me in the trans community's reaction to JKR's turn, that people so often assume people who remain HP fans are not just willing to give money to someone who hates us, but actually agree with her
like, most fans don't care that much about her either way!
I used to sorta run with a group of fellow queer performers and creators who did a lot of HP stuff (There's a few trans folk I know who were like the Cool Kids and had some AMAZING cosplays and I had a Hagrid burlesque act) and it wasn't until 2019 that things really took a dive, mostly cause of meh
yeah as I've said the reason I don't consume the stuff that's come out since we knew for sure JKR is anti-trans is *mostly* that it's all very bad and has been for a while (but, to be clear, I'm not with the "all of it was always bad" crowd)
I think part of it was just that she was so *ridiculous* on social media, aside from the politics. Being invested in HP/JKR fandom meant signing on to defend “Oh! And wizards used to just poop in their robes!” or whatever else she farted out. It’s tiring!
before the TERF stuff came out we had:
(1) lawsuits against fan reference guide she herself used
(2) "oh by the way I didn't actually put this in any books, but just fyi Dumbledore is gay"
(3) the poop thing
(4) weirdly international wizarding schools
(5) weirdass Cursed Child fan fic money grab
I will say that at the time, and having had friends that were at the Carnegie Hall reading where she outed Dumbledore, it was ... kinda sweet seeming? Again, the big caveat of at the time (one of my friends texted me super excited the moment she said it). It doesn't hold up in retrospect, true.
Honestly, we’ve kind of memory-holed how *different* things were in 2007, but her saying the character was gay even outside the text was A Huge Deal at the time! That was, for 2007 pop culture, considered a landmark for representation.
We’ve come very far since then, but historical context matters!
if she had just taken her money and lived a quiet private life disengaged from the fandom immediately after that point she would be remembered entirely differently.
100%!!! I used to compare her to Enya, but have since found out that a lot of Enya's reclusiveness came from some serious trauma involving stalkers so I don't really wish that upon anyone.
I mean I very much think she cares about the attention more than her work or legacy or any of it. Nothing else makes sense
Even Orson Scott Card, whose reasons for being Obsessed with the Queers are much easier to infer, didn’t have such single minded devotion to being political like that
I was far more deeply entrenched in the Ender's Game fandom than the HP fandom (top 20 all-time most active posters on a phpBB forum that OSC has named in acknowledgements to his books, have friends who got press passes to the movie set, etc) and that one still hurts.
I went in knowing it. I think it made Ender’s Game more impactful for me, in the sense that I had to go in with precisely the mindset the book is trying to put you in
“The difference between raman and varelse is not in the creature judged, but in the creature judging. When we declare an alien species to be raman, it does not mean that they have passed a threshold of moral maturity. It means that we have.” from SftD is a fantastic self own on OSC’s part
I met my now-husband on one of the two online roleplaying games based on EG. (The MOO, not the forum one.) I don't think many authors *could* hurt me like the author of that book can.
and like, yes I am well familiar with everything OSC as well, but just one of those thoughts in how much personal things can affect people to their core
I'm certain it was a lot and is part of his move toward "definitely a right wing Mormon and also things Peterhis actual brother who was basically Peter is good now"
