executive editor, barbell quarterly: i have a more patience for criticism of the US in the pacific, we lowered ourselves greatly and racialized the war in a way that we didn't do with the germans, to our endless discredit, but the empire of japan was monstrous and i will brook no apology for them

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in a hypothetical world where the nazis had never existed, the imperial japanese would have an approximately equal position in popular culture, i feel. the bad guys you don't have to feel bad about shooting in video games, etc.

This seems extremely plausible to me

an introductory scene with two low-ranking officers testing sword sharpness on civilians, and then half-philipino video game hero BJ Bautista goes to work,

When I studied in Beijing for a year I was somewhat radicalized after making some friends from SEA and hearing their grandparents stories. Only one gave me nightmares

i have a more patience for criticism of the US in the pacific, we lowered ourselves greatly and racialized the war in a way that we didn't do with the germans, to our endless discredit, but the empire of japan was monstrous and i will brook no apology for them

If you’ve never read this, it’s staggering www.amazon.com/War-Without-...

War without Mercy: Race and Power in the Pacific War (NATIONAL BOOK CRITICS CIRCLE AWARD WINNER): Dower, John: 9780394751726: Amazon.com: Bookswww.amazon.com War without Mercy: Race and Power in the Pacific War (NATIONAL BOOK CRITICS CIRCLE AWARD WINNER) [Dower, John] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. War without Mercy: Race and Power in the Pacific War (NATIONAL BOOK CRITICS CIRCLE AWARD WINNER)

The kind of racial propaganda deployed by the U.S. against Japan might not surprise you — though Dower’s analysis is sharp — but his treatment of how the Japanese depicted western powers in their propaganda is usually what floors students. Seeing how “we” looked in “their” eyes is a revelation

yeah we were not the only ones making it a race war (though ofc i wish we hadn't)

It does make me wonder how the war would have ended without the Manhattan Project. Seems fairly likely that the Japanese Empire would have remained intact, at least to a degree.

At least as an imperial regime, I mean. I don't know how plausible an invasion of the islands would have been to force an unconditional surrender, and a long fight in SE Asia, China, etc., would have been brutal all around

The Red Army basically annihilated the IJA in Manchuria though, like a power washer through tissue paper. Imperial Japan kept trying to use the Sovs as a peace broker in summer 1945. The shock from the USSR entering the war was pretty profound. Unconditional surrender profound? (Shrug)

I think that famine would have ravaged the Home Islands. I don’t think that would force a surrender, either, but combining the blockade, continued bombing, and Japan itself prioritizing efforts to fend off Allied landings over basically all else? it paints a picture but it is not a pretty one

mass famine in the japanese home islands until eventually someone got to a radio and surrendered, probably. the blockade was pretty total by the summer of '45

something like that - but that could have been a very long time, and you could well end up with disorderly warlord states where Japanese control hadn't really been contested yet.

Soviet Naval invasion by the autumn of '45, if Japan doesn't surrender to avoid being crushed by the Red Army, give it 6 month max before the Red Banner flies over the Imperial Palace

Internal regime change brought on by mass famine and starvation. We were aggressively mining Japan’s inshore areas and air attacks were shifting priorities from infrastructure nodes (which had repair facilities) to rural choke points (which didn’t). Imperial government is toast.

My father flew in the Pacific during WWII (Tinian). He never mentioned the war at all though we did have Time Life books. When he was a few years into Alzheimer's my niece interviewed him for an 8th grade project and we heard words that never crossed his lips for decades.

Someone said the IJA used Three Stooges movies in its propaganda.

I'm not sure if that's true, but it would fit the pattern. When Frank Capra did the Why We Fight films, he scoured Japanese movies and performances for bizarre scenes that -- when presented out of context with no explanation -- would seem bizarre to American audiences. I'm sure they did the same.

I just remember seeing part of Momotaro, Sacred Sailors (1945), which included a lot of propaganda. And wow. blog.alltheanime.com/music-the-ai...

Music: The AIUEO Song – All the Animeblog.alltheanime.com

Oh good, I was hoping somebody would bring up Dower. This, plus Chang's (slightly iffy) Rape of Nanking should be required reading.

Yes, right down to the iffy.

The thing is, that incident is so crazy that "some of these stories are exaggerated or misconstrued" doesn't actually change the effect of the book. It just further paints how messy it was.

My FIL really liked Dower's book (in Japanese translation). But he was solidly anti-Imperial family, anti-imperialism.

Wow, I can't imagine it was easy for his family leading up to/during the war. Japanese imperialism was far-reaching and horribly successful at squashing dissent.

I know his parents weren't anti-imperial family. For him and my MIL, it was being children and teenagers during and after war. Both of them basically were in "aozora" schools (just set up in the rubble) for awhile. He became a teacher, but the teachers' union was radical thru the '70s, so no impact.

...it was the first time I learned that we had massive stockpiles of poison gas in Hawaii that we planned to use in the invasion of Japan.

Free download on audible. It didn’t cost me a credit. Thanks for the recommendation!!

You're welcome, but I suspect you're going to want to get a print copy of the book as the propaganda illustrations are mind blowing.

I use some of the pictures in that book in my second lecture in my post-45 US course to talk about racism in WWII but within the context of the Enola Gay exhibit controversies of the 90s. It's an excellent book.

My Dad, a Marine combat veteran of that war, agreed with you. He got medals, and promotion, but not the good conduct medal, typically routine.

Brilliant. Bruce Cummings assigned it to us in college.

I did read that and recommend it highly as well.

The depiction of the Empire is one of my continued old man yells at cloud. Whenever I am watching an Anime that makes Japan the smol bean in a war that directly references ww2. Also the nanjing museum did give my whole class nightmares.

That was my reaction when I understood the message of the original Godzilla. Yes, vis a vi the US with its atomic bombs Japan was a helpless smol bean, but who was Godzilla to the Koreans, among others?

Oh, I'm genuinely curious ab some you might be referring to. There are a few anime I can think of that have pushed the idea of re-militarizing Japan but not directly connecting to WW2 necessarily.

The thing that stunned me as I learned more about the Pacific War is how much it was framed as an explicit race war by both sides.

Exactly this. While two wrongs don’t make a right, the idea that all wrongs are equivalent is farcical.

yeah - it's just strikingly obscure for something so enormously significant and still, ultimately, not that long ago.

Lacks the fan-favorite central character of Adolf Hitler, I reckon

I did a project with digitized bombing reports for a class on US military history a few years and one thing that stood out to me from WWII was that listed targets in the pacific would specify that the target was "jap," but there was no similar "german" specification in europe

youtu.be/y5aJQWBYHaA?...

The Pacific (2010) | I Just Wanna Slap a Japyoutu.be SERIES DESCRIPTION: The Pacific Theatre of World War II, as seen through the eyes of several young Marines. CREDITS: TV Series: The Pacific (S01E08 - 2010). Director: David Nutter. Cast: James Badge Dale, Joseph Mazzello, Jon Seda. TM & © DreamWorks Television. DISCLAIMER: All videos uploaded are the copyrighted material of their original owners and are to be copyright claimed automatically or at the discretion of the owner. We value the diverse opinions of our audience, so you may find points of view that you don’t agree with. And that’s cool. However, please keep the conversation respectful and constructive. We will delete comments and ban users who post offensive, hateful, or disparaging material. Outro Music (Ignite) by Sandman. #ThePacific #JamesBadgeDale #DavidNutter #ClipSociety

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