There’s a whole subnormal subculture of people on here who are obsessed with running people off the site. The vast majority of the time they fail (as, one senses, they do at nearly everything in their lives). But they’re very happy when they succeed.
/1
That’s kind of the eternal apologia for people being insufferable assholes, isn’t it? “Me being an insufferable asshole, in a way that doesn’t actually achieve anything or persuade anyone, and that only serves my need to be an asshole, isn’t the real problem!”
No. But, to use an analogy to another riot-worthy issue, if someone says “we should riot over genocide in Gaza,” and a dude says “I want to do it by painting swastikas on synagogues,” I tend to suspect my dude is not actually in it for Gaza.
Reasonable minds can differ on whether you can change a bad institution from within. Reasonable minds are not involved in gleefully hounding someone off and then celebrating it. Those are people with the souls of fascists.
On that note, if the stated rationale is that he’s good but he’s lending legitimacy to a bad institution, irritating him so much that he leaves here accomplished literally zero of your goals. It’s just one less smart black guy here, and he’s still working for NYT anyway. What did you accomplish?
Idk I think it’s pretty reasonable to be frustrated that Bouie is gone, and if expressing frustration with that outcome is reinforcing transphobia it may be worth considering if that tactic is effective or just creating more backlash
If it discourages a tactic that is actively unhelpful, it could be.
But more to the point you’re saying that trans ppl/allies should be able to express their anger however they want, even if misdirected, but people frustrated with them for silencing a black man shouldn’t be allowed to express it.
Possibly, but I’m not going to police their rage.
And I think anyone starting a thread just to call upset trans people assholes is doing direct harm to them.
Of course not. From what I saw this whole thing started from him rejecting and silencing the mildest of legitimate criticism and that rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.
Not quite correct. He posted something pro-trans and someone came into his mentions essentially accusing him of being a hypocrite for blocking them. He replied and said this person who had replied was not blocked, and he does not think quitting is a reasonable ask. Then the dogpile started.
Other people replied saying he had blocked in the past, and yes that’s true. But he didn’t block the person who started this round (at least at first, idk about later), he made an explicit point of saying they aren’t blocked, and he responded to the criticism calmly.
But yes I suppose I don’t actually agree that he is obligated to give infinite patience to a thousand trolls blowing up his menchies. I don’t think that’s a reasonable thing to ask of a person.
Exactly. More or less his sins were (1) not immediately capitulating and (2) blocking a brigade. This is the attitude of this extremely toxic subset: we are entitled to dictate, we are entitled to your full attention, we are entitled to engagement, we are entitled to obedience.
I also don’t think it’s something those of us who have never experienced can really speak to. I’ve gotten brigaded in very minor ways and it was shitty, I can’t really put myself in a headspace to make a value judgment about what I would do if it was exponentially worse.
I’ve gotten brigaded in minor ways and I just block. Block em all, never stop blocking. I get why Bouie wouldn’t jump to it as quickly. He dedicates himself to honest, transparent, good faith conversation. It just doesn’t work with these self-immolating drama-bombers.
Best thing to do when you find someone you think (correctly or not) can make a difference at an institution you’d like to change is to shout at them until they cut off all contact, after all.
This is the built-in failure mechanic that left activism seriously needs to fix. The “no true Scotsman” urge to destroy any compromise-tempered deliverable in hand.
Maybe it doesn’t need to fix it and this variety of so-called left activism should just fail. All kinds of actually helpful activism seems to occur without (indeed, despite) the help of the Extremely Online Left.
I just look at them and sometimes think, “and there’s the next generation of disengaged non-voters forming in real time.” It feels like a nihilism machine.
Also I’ve disagreed with him on here and he didn’t block me. I realize that’s just my own personal data point. But people love to push this indiscriminate blocking narrative and I think it’s just hyperbole and not true. Weirdos and bullies should get blocked.
Agreed. Also we don’t have to even intellectualize the acts of mass harassment and being total assholes. There’s no defense for that shit no matter the motive or cause involved.
The whole "criticizing our tactics is bigotry and blocking us is silencing us" bit is kind of fascinating to me. It's literally just "free speech absolutism, but from the left".
💯 I think a lot of it comes from seeing bad faith criticism of protests and internalizing that as "Oppressed people can do no wrong when attempting to stand up for themselves" rather than "Use critical thinking when dealing with people criticizing oppressed people standing up for themselves"
Yeah, I certainly understand the reflexive instinct to defend any tactics from a cause you agree with, but some tactics are bad or counterproductive or just morally wrong and it’s fine to say so.
I see it on both left and right - I think it's only related to ideology in the sense that the people who make that sort of argument are also attracted to severe ideologies.
And beyond anyone's beliefs about how some figure "should" react to certain interactions regarding their voluntary participation on a particular social media app, it is usually not the case that said figure is *likely* to follow those expectations. They just leave, as they can.
