Ed Davey is my current hero of this campaign for playing a different game. And it only adds to my admiration that his approach enrages Conservatives. I’ve had to block two today.
Without mentioning any Keir Starmers by name, I feel very confident that Ed Davey is the best at centristing right now and I really wish certain unnamed Keir Starmers would take a few notes if we simply must have centrists centristing.
Yeah, the LibDems screwed up pretty horribly in the coalition government. I give them some points for learning some lessons, at least.
I'm voting Sinn Fein here. In England I'd vote however I had to in order to beat the Tory. I'd like more ideological daylight between Labour and LibDems, though.
I wish they’d gone for coalition with Lab instead at that time but the numbers weren’t there.
The Lib Dems hoped to moderate the excesses of the Tory govt but got screwed instead by the Tories in the next election. Built up a good momentum under Tim Farron and Vince Cable but Jo Swinson blew it 🙄.
The Lib Dems did go to Labour first during the coalition negotiations - and we needed a stable government because the markets were ready to pounce post-crash - but Ed Balls convinced Brown to reject it. He wanted to try for a minority Labour government.
The Lib Dems at the time felt they had a responsibility to the country to offer stable government so they went to the Tories next in the hope they could mitigate against excesses. Naive but good-hearted. But we would have been in a Truss-style mess if the markets had moved.
Just on this point for people who still hold a grudge: parties change all the time. The party of Starmer is not the party of Corbyn. The party of Corbyn was not the party of Blair. The party of Truss was not the party of Major. And so on. And the party of Davey is clearly not the party of Clegg.
Some parties have changed more than others. The current 'Conservative' party would be unrecognisable to Ted Heath, and yet many voters will still be seduced by the blue rosette.
Maybe so, but I remember the Thatcher years, and how they got here from there isn't impossible to fathom. Blair's lurch to the right of centre forced the tories to the right and everything since them was predictable.
Seems so in my constituency. Its been Tory since the days of Noah; dress a chimp in ‘business wear’, pin a blue rosette on its lapel and they’ll vote for it.🙄
Not sure if even a complete tactical vote (anti-Tory vote entirely for Labour) would unseat her, even after the last 14-yr sh*t-show!
It is undoubtedly true for a proportion of voters, who will literally vote for a donkey if it's wearing a blue rosette. It's like a badge of honour to these out of touch people.
If I can't vote for LibDems because of the coalition, nor Labour because of Iraq, nor Sinn Fein because of terrorism, I start to run out of parties to vote for.
At some point, we've got to let it go. Some of those are tougher to forget than others, I admit.
Labour sort of have an excuse on Iraq. A lot of the party voted against it and it was the Tories that bailed Blair out.
That said there is a point where a Party has to be considered OK for another go.
Apart from the Tories, who can burn in Hell.
I openly admit that the hard one for me is Sinn Fein. Some of the things they've been associated with are simply unforgivable.
But there are times I have to accept that adulting is hard and sometimes you have to swallow and make your best guess at doing the right thing even if no choice is ideal.
Sinn Fein’s allies have probably killed a lot less people than the Tories.
Not that any acts of terror are excused; but politics requires perspective as you’ve said.
They probably reflect my views better than Sinn Fein, on balance. But there are times you look at the polls and conclude it's SF or DUP, and that one's easy. That's my choice in June.
But I vote for SDLP where I can. I'm not exactly opposed to Alliance and a few others either TBH.
my husbands comment about lib dems hit me though. yep they are great now snd they were under Charles Kennedy but remember them under Clegg and how they attempted to harm our kids and harmed a generation . yes this manifesto looks brilliant. And here lies my dilemma
Clegg like Blair betrayed his supporters and the Party (similar with Johnson) recovering from these fraudsters takes time.
Right now it’s painful for many of us to realise that Westminster is overall just a sewer whatever Party is in charge.
i actually think starmer, rayner and ed davey are decent people and I had hoped Sunak might be (but i was wrong there, he has no vision and just wanted power). Blair i was uncomfortable about but i think apart from Iraq much of his record was good. especially sure start centres, waiting lists etc
Eyes on the prize. Tories out by whatever means. All other considerations secondary. Labour's manifesto (and Starmer generally) = cautious, but it's directed to one thing only: Tories out (which means attracting ex-Tory voters). So vote tactically, but effectively. Head over heart.
5th July you're entitled to your hangover / relapse / deep peaceful sleep, plus dancing in the street. Give Labour 15 months and see where party and country are by the 2025 conference season. There's a lot to be done, and it'll take time. I'd trust the process for now, not least as it's working.
You can't forgive a party for breaking promises based on them making more promises. It's possible the party has actually moved to the left of Labour (or moreso that Labour had moved to the right of them) but at the moment all we have is electoral positioning
"Attemped to harm our kids"
Have you actually read the detail of what happened and why, about tuition fees?
If it's kids you worry about, LDs in coalition quadrupled renewable energy, got gay marriage, provided the pupil premium and introduced shared parental leave.
And you would have had to under Labour majority or Lib/lab, or con or any other government.
I'm not saying it wasn't shit they they promised not to, and did it. But there is no conceivable way that In 2010 tuition fees were going to go up.
If it's your money you're worried about, then think how much more you'd have paid for electricity these past two years (and how much worse inflation would have been) without all of the renewables the LDs built. That's certainly saved you money.
I always felt there was some personal chemistry in the choice of coalition partners. Clegg and Cameron were a natural double act, while Brown was stiff and perhaps a bit aloof ? But anyway, it's all long in the past. For me, it's time for forgiveness!
If anything, the succession of collosal incompetents that have led the Tory Party for the last few years are significantly worse than those who came before them.
Yes - makes a difference whether in government or not but people are still annoyed about say Iraq and I reserve the right to be annoyed about austerity and the two child cap
That's true, but I get the impression that's not always how it feels to a lot of us. There's the "I'm a lifelong .... voter" for whom one party is tied up with their identity, for example. And a party's identity's shaped by decades of choices. But Labour's definitely changed how it comes across.
I have not noticed much difference in the Liberal Democrats over a generation - what did you have in mind as the key differences between 2010 and now? I think the Conservatives and Labour have both shifted much more and over much shorter time periods.
My feeling (fairly simplistic?) is that the Lib Dems have remained common-sense/practical/pragmatic/centre-ground, and crucially people-focussed - rather than open to being driven by fundamentalist, ideological dogma of the RW or LW.
