yarrriv: did they move because of the debate or because of the full-page spread in the NYT, can't tell

the argument is and continues to be that voters shouldn’t overweight about twenty minutes of genuinely very bad debate performance

Why does everyone keep talking about "the voters" like they're the ones writing in the New York Times. All evidence so far is that the voters are basically unmoved

i mean the polling averages/approvals *have* moved in the wrong direction, although (1) they've not moved a lot, (2) we've only had a few polls, and (3) it's only been a week

did they move because of the debate or because of the full-page spread in the NYT, can't tell

Based on the number of people who have seamlessly switched into “really it’s the way the campaign that’s responding I’m worried about” this is almost entirely a media-driven thing On Here

yeah but what's happening On Here is like the least interesting part of any conversation, at least back on twitter there were enough journalists/politicians that you could imagine a trickle-down effect

Josh Marshall was really good imo: talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/conti...

Continuing Thoughts on the Turmoiltalkingpointsmemo.com Two thoughts on our current predicament. The first is that while people...

Good in the first half. The thing is that Biden has had a public event every day since the debate

A public event is insufficient, imo.

Again I really implore people to not overweight the Times’ influence on actual voters

I mean either journalism doesn't change public opinion, in which case it's a waste of everybody's time and money, or it does, in which case they need to consider the effect of their actions

anyway in a 50:50 environment even small effects are meaningful, there are like a dozen different but-fors that gave us Trump in 2016

It’s obviously a complex and dynamical system which is why I’d also implore the Times’ employees to really examine what and why they do what they do, which is to me supremely irresponsible even if the only people they’re freaking out are online weirdos

The NY Times isn’t a solo influence on media consumers but it’s a bellwether and powerful influence of media herding effects Their editorial line gives permission to other outlets to parrot similar narratives, and it snowballs (I think this is very evident from the 2016 Emails saga!)

their influence isn't limited to their readership tbf. they're one of the three papers of record and feed the media ecosystem

Oh sure but there’s a load of conflation of “voters” and “readers of the Times” which isn’t helpful. Their parade of unsourced “democrats in disarray” nonsense needs to be read through the filter of AG’s hardon for Biden because of his FEELS

some voters read the times, other voters consume other media sources who have times-envy, it's significant

Most voters don’t pay any attention whatsoever. But I’m not arguing that the elite media isn’t important; I would argue that their importance is in creating and shaping elite opinion, and that’s where their “hey no we’re just reporting (the stuff our boss wants us to)” framing is so damaging.

probably more so due to the general freakout but some of both i'd guess

Yeah they’ve got to get fully united one way or another, quickly. Either Biden has some good performances and they line up behind him with everyone making statements of support, or he doesn’t and they force him out and line up behind Kamala.

BINGO

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