Internet Archive: Today, we filed our final brief in Hachette v. Internet Archive, the publishers’ lawsuit against our library. For four years we've been fighting for library rights—what our founder, Brewster Kahle, calls “a battle for the soul of libraries in the digital age.” 👉 blog.archive.org/2024/04/19/i...

Today, we filed our final brief in Hachette v. Internet Archive, the publishers’ lawsuit against our library. For four years we've been fighting for library rights—what our founder, Brewster Kahle, calls “a battle for the soul of libraries in the digital age.” 👉 blog.archive.org/2024/04/19/i...

Uk libraries pay royalties on loans. Why don't you?

Because the US does not have a public lending right program.

there is always that moment when you look at america and understand that so many things that we in the rest of the western world take for granted are not even close to guaranteed there

America gives the public a First Amendment-protected right to read. It's the rest of the world lacking the protection that the US has.

What are you arguing here? Your right to SPEAK against the government without being imprisoned does not AT ALL mean you have the right to READ the words of people who have not given you permission to read them. Freedom of speech is not a right to access all words.

Yes, it does/is. I'm not making this up; courts have long found that the First Amendment includes the right to read, and copyright law (as currently written) doesn't endow a (c) owner with rights that could interfere with it. www.techdirt.com/2023/11/03/w...

Wherein The Copia Institute Tells The Copyright Office There’s No Place For Copyright Law In AI Trainingwww.techdirt.com These days everyone seems to be talking about AI, and the Copyright Office is no exception, although it may make sense for it to speak here because people keep trying to invoke copyright as a conce…

Except you seem to banning a lot of books over there so it doesn't seem to be working. We (I'm sure not all of the rest of the world, but the sensible parts) just don't codify a right we actually have.

The First Amendment isn't self-executing, so bad laws tend to happen before the courts kill them. And they are starting to. Because the book bans are absolutely unconstitutional.

You're right, here in Japan I don't have a right read lol what are you even talking about

Well, it's a freedom to publish. I'm no global constitutional expert, but your constitution & some of its amendments have been admired around the world. I'd be surprised if none of the other 192 nations hadn't also been inspired to enshrine such a freedom too.

Not as durably, sadly. ECHR jurisprudence is sadly disappointing, for instance.

In 4 days in Paris last month, saw two incidents of random searches that would NEVER fly in the US. And was busted for €35 for riding the Metro without a valid ticket, which, yeah is on me

fare evasion, famously something never enforced in the US

OK. I get that. Thanks for the reply! So how would you feel about the US developing a similar public lending right as in Europe, purely as a hypothetical exploration of the balance to be struck between the rights of creators to earn a living and your users? Would you be opposed in principle?

Because that's not the law in the US? In any case, it's not the libraries themselves that make Public Lending Right payments in the UK, the money comes from central government. web.archive.org/web/20230129...

Public Lending Right: About usweb.archive.org PLR is the right for authors to receive payment for the loans of their books by public libraries

And they've just slashed it massively.

Hadn't heard that, I'm hardly surprised though 😒

Thanks for that. I think it gets interesting where books published in one jurisdiction are copied by the archive and made available in another with different lending laws. Obviously, this makes a point of friction between competing rights. Genuinely interested in the US perspective on this.

I agree that things get complicated where the internet is involved and making content available online can affect those outside the country where the website is based.

However, I think it's important to note that even if the Internet Archive were based in the UK, its loans would not be relevant to calculating Public Lending Right payments because only loans from public libraries are taken into account, not those from private libraries, university libraries, etc.

I (and hundreds of others) gave books that I/we bought and owned to the Archive. Why should the IA pay anyone after my/our gifts? You don't know what this case is about. The publishers want book digitization by others permanently illegal. / more

One consequence that has already occurred. A book publisher pulled back digital copies that thousands of readers (thought they) had bought. Of course, the book in question *was* 1984. And, yes, the US publisher post-facto rescinded rights to the book. Our future, if Hachette (et al) win. /end

In Brazil, last month, amaz00n took away all the books from certain publishers after a bad negotiation with the middle company that sell the rights for them to sell Bindle books. They returned but were lost for a month.

This is why this case is so vital. Losing access to music, etc., is bad. Losing access to BOOKS, the heart of our cultures and legal systems, knowledge, ... Having these allowed or withdrawn by legal whim is hideous beyond belief.

if we don't own games/books, then piracy isn't stealing

Revolutionary War, for one.

Brits get seriously confused about that

If that was true, that would be absurd. Once you make the sale, you don't also get to charge rent.

Sorry, if what were true? Public Lending Rights are normal across Europe. To a European it seems quite peculiar that the US doesn't have an equivalent. Here's the current UK pricing: www.gov.uk/government/c...

Public Lending Right: Rate Per Loan 2022 to 2023 consultationwww.gov.uk Consultation on the proposed rate per loan for the 2022 to 2023 Public Lending Right scheme year

What a dystopian idea. If this ever comes to be, I sincerely hope UK and EU libraries and their patrons can organize to overturn the reading tax and the politicians that imposed it.

So, it's paid by Central government in an agreed lump sum each year. The principle underneath is part-socialistic: it acknowledges that creators enrich people's lives and redistributes central funding as a recognition of how they have done so.

The libraries themselves pay nothing, just to clarify. Btw, I'm finding the responses here really interesting. It's really helping me understand the US perspective.

Lol what do you work for a publisher? Why wouldn’t you want information and media to be freely available?

Thanks for asking! I'm a one man band writer who sells books on market stalls in Portsmouth, UK. Every sale counts. Talking face to face with customers, sometimes one tells me he'll "get it free online". None of my books are online, but I point him to the library where they are freely available. 1/2

This means we both win. He reads the book for free, I receive a royalty from the Public Lending Rights system. Everybody wins. It's a tough life. I sell in rain or shine, so this affects me very directly and I'm interested in other perspectives than my own on this. Thanks for your time! 😀 2/2

I mean, except the library right? They’re essentially subsidizing sales of your book by offering it for free to people and paying you for the privilege. Which, like, I get that it’s a sweet deal for you.

I guess if the library is otherwise super well funded then I’m cool with what’s basically a state subsidy for writers.

Publishers apparently hate the Internet Archive. Readers, on the other hand, LOVE IT.

I think that's a fair assessment, yes! 😀

As an American, I am jealous of this arrangement. I wish that libraries in America were funded well enough to do exactly as you say, for books, movies, music, etc. Lawsuits like this feel like a real threat if you are a person without as much money as you have time to explore.

There must be a way to thread the needle, instead of seeing this as winner takes all scenario.

It sounds to me like the UK has it figured out. You don't think they've threaded the needle correctly?

Yes, I was thinking about the US. There's a very different emphasis over there, something I think culturally is very different between us.

Yes, truly public libraries, based on the right of first sale in our copyright law, were invented in the US. The model of patrons paying for each check out persisted for much longer in the UK.

I use the IA weekly when I'm not using it daily. I'd hate for anything to happen to it.

nice to see you folks

Impersonation

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To Tartarus with corporate copywrong. You should be allowed to do what you do.

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