Its not about short term revenge it’s about the fact that if On faces no consequences for what he did then that further encourages more people to do what he did. The state refuses to punish him so it is in vigilantes to make sure his behavior is discouraged somehow.
I agree that the failure of law enforcement leads to exactly that. Here I am trying to advocate for people to not escalate our society’s ills to a state of no return.
what you describe has been happening for several years with a steady upward ratchet. social media has exploded with unchecked hate speech - the platform operators have simply stopped pretending to care about user safety and societal consequences
This would be true if fascists and liberals were playing by the same rules. They are not. Fascism believes in pre-emptive violence. Liberalism believes everyone is innocent until proven guilty. We can either die, pre-emptively, or take action that ultimately saves lives.
If fascism cared about a moral high ground, that high ground might be important. But they specifically, proudly, reject the very existence of such a high ground, and they use the fetishism for it against its fetishists.
THIS is a relatable argument.
The paradox of tolerance isn’t a paradox, because the intolerant does not deserve the social contract’s promise of tolerance.
We don't have "moral high ground", not as a society, not as a country, not in the practical, day-to-day process of how our country and the systems in our country treats actual human beings who live under it's rules.
The state indemnifying this violent goon against legal consequences for his violent behavior is the state extending his ability to do more violence, how is this state of affairs "the moral high ground"
This person is literally engaged in "mob justice" with the tacit approval of the police and the DA, that ship has sailed. It's frustrating to observe people pretend that the vigilantes are not already acting with practical impunity.
You have to explain how making a claim to occupying the moral high ground will actually prevent more violence. This son of a bitch thinks he has the moral high ground, and knows, for a fact, he won't get in trouble for his violence.
I’m sorry for being a source of frustration for you in this context. I appreciate what you’re saying here. I’m not here to say self-entitled vigilantes aren’t already doing vigilante shit. That’s exactly what these fuckers are and the state is failing in its duty because of select individuals.
No, the state is not failing. This is exactly what it’s set up to do: side with fascists over protestors. This goes back to the founding of the country and hasn’t changed.
I’m sorry for whatever awful shit has happened to you in your everyday life. I’ve suffered shit at the hands of sociopaths, but I’m not looking to advocate for the collapse of society by promoting vigilante violence and escalation.
Very little awful shit has happened to me, I'm actually quite privileged. Can you explain how the police letting this guy viciously beat people, the DA refusing to impose legal consequences for his violence, and him understanding that he can do more violence with impunity is the "moral high ground"?
I’m sorry for whatever awful shit has happened to you in your everyday life. I’ve suffered shit at the hands of sociopaths, but I’m not looking to advocate for the collapse of society by promoting vigilante violence and escalation.
It isn’t. I’ve said as such. You’re confusing my “dont advocate for vigilante/mob ‘justice’“ with some kind of justification of an authority doing the job totally fucking wrong, which I’m not doing.
No I'm not I'm asking you how, practically, we stop this specific guy from doing more violence, now that he knows he can beat people up on camera without the cops stopping him or the DA charging him.
Is this fucker of the type who travels to cause chaos at protests? Plaster video evidence, his face, name so people at other protests can be on the lookout to document the pattern of behavior. A DA elsewhere isn’t guaranteed to make the same shitty decision, especially w/a pattern of behavior.
under ordinary conditions i would agree with you
otoh i recall that while growing up in an industrial wasteland in the midwest, it was understood that certain offenses against the community would lead to consequences either in or out of the legal system, from social shunning to much more
Once again, the whole point is that the other side is already engaging in vigilante violence WITH PROTECTION FROM THE STATE. That’s what’s causing the collapse of society.
Making the vigilantes on the other side face consequences helps fix the problem.
So do I. Pissed people w/self-appointed right to violence & mob “justice” aren't justice. There are chaos-feeders here calling me Nazi b/c it serves their emotional needs. Do you think I feel safe from a mob of people riled up over false claims? I’m already a repeat victim of sociopaths & bullies.
when formally recognized justice systems become so corrupt that their primary product is injustice , alternative systems will inevitably arise to restore balance. this is nothing surprising but a property of all systems that are out of balance.
At no point was I talking about punching nazis, until 1 person moved the goal post to that as some kind of purity test. They were happy to answer for me so I would “fail” for anyone unwilling to read all the context. Unless they’ve deleted them, there’s a firehose stream of malignant posts from them
This conversation started because of news that the DA is refusing to charge a guy who admitted to assaulting protesters. It was mentioned that the state deliberately letting their supporters assault people is a fascist tactic, and you got mad at me for hoping On faces extralegal consequences.
The DA refused to go for felony charges. When I read the article, instead of just going by the context of people’s responses here, I learned that the DA is sending the case to the LA law enforcement system for other possible charges. It’s not a closed case, unless that’s changed.
Take that up with them. I’m making no presentment on their reliability or trustworthiness. The point is: according to the article at the root of this topic, this is not yet a case-closed scenario. I hope the fucker faces consequences, but via a legal system, however fucked it currently is.
"youth involved in street violence should face extralegal execution" is an extraordinary position to take and an even more extraordinary position to think of as pro-Palestinian
Go back to the root posting. There were several people making coded comments (or however you want to phrase it). That’s where this started. I’m not the only one to challenge it, but I sure did get a lot of shit directed specifically my way for doing so.
Having lived through the whole thing, until I started blocking a particularly malignant person posting a firehose of abuse & false claims, you’re missing something. I won’t get anywhere with any of this because I’ve somehow failed someone’s purity test and everyone decided I’m the enemy. I’m fucked🤷🏽♂️
