Michael Hobbes: Does anyone have suggestions for academics I should speak to for an episode on Jonathan Haidt's "The Anxious Generation"? I'm genuinely trying to figure out what the research says on teens and mental health, so I'd love to hear from a range of experts.

Does anyone have suggestions for academics I should speak to for an episode on Jonathan Haidt's "The Anxious Generation"? I'm genuinely trying to figure out what the research says on teens and mental health, so I'd love to hear from a range of experts.

I don’t have anything for your specific request, but it’s interesting to me that he is promoting a narrative that this generation is uniquely anxious, which has been a popular trope since W.H. Auden’s 1947 poem “The Age of Anxiety.”

There is also a prehistory to the trope that goes back to the 1920s and fears of technological change as dehumanizing and destructive of social relations, which is basically the anti-social-media argument, but 100 years ago.

Isn’t “the problem with kids these days is X” Jonathan Haidt’s beat?

It very much is. What I find funny about it is that the problem with kids these days is the same whether these days are the 2020s or the 1940s.

I look forward to when he decides that the problem with kids these days is books and we come full circle

wait, are they coddled (per his earlier book) or anxious? which one is it??

There's a lot of good data that something is going on, just not a lot of good data about why it's happening. Social media (accessible 24/7 with smart phones) is one contested theory. I've not read Haidt's book, but have Kathleen Vohs' book, which is related. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...

Rising Rates of Adolescent Depression in the United States: Challenges and Opportunities in the 2020swww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Auden wrote about increasing anxiety because we invented nukes and could literally destroy the world. There are indeed good reasons for people (including teens) to be experiencing increased anxiety—pandemics, genocides, political instability, climate crisis… Smartphones and social media don’t rate.

That’s the first bit I’d argue against too!

@orbenamy.bsky.social , Candice Odgers, @shuhbillskee.bsky.social are probably the best in terms of the specific criticisms of the association of social media and mental health. @luciamawe.bsky.social has a great line of research from a developmental perspective on how teens use SM.

You probably could also reach out to Matt Nock at Harvard about teen suicide and self-injury. Or Ron Kessler, who does epidemiology of mental health disorders. Both are probably hard to get ahold of but would be well qualified to speak on general patterns and trends in MH.

Matt Nock was going to be my suggestion, seconding this. He is unbelievably busy but also usually pretty good about outreach.

Seconded and they probably also have good suggestions for who to reach out to to get a diverse range of researchers

Amy Orben ( @orbenamy.bsky.social )and Andrew Przybylski @shuhbillskee.bsky.social are both top tier experts in this space

+1 for Amy and Andy. Other good candidates are Craig Sewall and Christopher J. Ferguson (both not on this platform AFAIK but on the "birdsite" without the bird).

Also came here to suggest Amy Orben

I also suggest Sonia Livingstone, LSE (not on this platform)

My colleague Jeff Hancock at Stanford University. This is the focus of his research (and that of his lab, the Social Media Lab) and he has repeatedly presented research showing that the picture is far more complex than “social media & phones are 100% bad for all youth everywhere.”

sml.stanford.edu/people/jeff-...

Jeff Hancocksml.stanford.edu Harry and Norman Chandler Professor of Communication

Funny enough @rebeccawatson.bsky.social did a video on this book, and referenced yours and @notalawyer.bsky.social's ep on Coddling of the American Mind, and cited some folks. Link to transcript here: www.patreon.com/posts/is-jon...

Is Jonathan Haidt Right About Social Media Rewiring Kids' Brains?? | Rebecca Watsonwww.patreon.com Get more from Rebecca Watson on Patreon

danah boyd

also Siva Vaidhyanathan

Was literally just coming here to mention her, so seconding danah!

Seconded.

Fifth recommendation for danah

Seconded!

Candice Odgers should be at the top of your list. She’s great.

I enjoyed this, and he mentions Candace Odgers concerns about causality www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v4...

William Davies · Anticipatory Anxiety: Generation Anxietywww.lrb.co.uk To be young today is to face the future – the planet’s as well as one’s own – at a time when social safety nets...

www.nature.com/articles/d41...

The great rewiring: is social media really behind an epidemic of teenage mental illness?www.nature.com The evidence is equivocal on whether screen time is to blame for rising levels of teen depression and anxiety — and rising hysteria could distract us from tackling the real causes. The evidence is equ...

Agree about Candice Odgers!

So she has an academic background but mostly works as a clinical psych these days, but try Dr Ruth Ann Harpur. She's both got an academic interest *and* is an extremely experienced clinical psych who works with anxiety so would be ideal. (She's a fan of the show, too).

wait, I think I saw a strategy that worked for someone else- have you considered interviewing the parents of children diagnosed with anxiety who think their children are faking for social clout?

Siva Vaidhyanathan at UVa. Amy Orben and Andrew Przybylski at Oxford. Candice Odgers at UC-Irvine. @mmasnick.bsky.social @taylorlorenz.bsky.social. I'm happy to send you the galleys to my next book, The Web We Weave, where I also summarize opposition.

Here are citations in one footnote from the book if these are useful:

Absolutely second these!

Amy Orben Andy Przybylski Candice Odgers Craig Sewall Pete Etchells Chris Ferguson Patti Valkenburg Adrian Meier Mariek Vanden Abeele Basically anyone featured in this special issue of Current Opinion in Psychology on Social Media and Well-being www.sciencedirect.com/special-issu...

Current Opinion in Psychology | Social Media and Well-Being (2022) | ScienceDirect.com by ElsevierScienceDirectwww.sciencedirect.com The effect of social media use on well-being is among the hottest debates around the world. This special issue brings together scholars from the social and behavioral sciences to reflect on the bread...

Great list!

I don’t have a response to your question, but do you have any people who are currently teenagers booked to talk with you in a substantial way?

If not I could certainly recommend my teen who wrote an extra essay voluntarily just to critique haidt’s piece in the Atlantic

Good luck. The research is a big muddle of contradictory findings and strong opinions last time I delved into it.

You're Wrong About just did an episode with Taylor Lorenz that referenced that book quite a bit! I was thinking about how it'd be a perfect topic for If Books Could Kill, too.

Lisa Damour is great www.instagram.com/lisa.damour?...

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I concur! She was a guest on an episode of Inside Higher Ed’s podcast and does a great job of delving into the complexity

Ezra Klein talked to a psychologist named Jean Twenge last year about the issue as it relates to smartphones. www.nytimes.com/2023/05/19/o...

Opinion | Why Are Teens in Crisis? Here’s What the Evidence Says. (Published 2023)www.nytimes.com The psychologist Jean Twenge makes a definitive case for why smartphones and social media are contributing to the mental health struggles of young people.

She is Haidt's partner in moral panic.

It's hard to call it a moral panic when it doesn't place blame or target any kind of group as a sinister threat.

There have been moral panics about novels movies television comic books trock lyrics and video games, to name a few

I have a chapter about the history of these moral panics in my next book, coming out in october.

This is a non sequitr, but I'm curious if you would count the early 20th century temperance movement as a moral panic?

I think calling Haidt's work a 'moral panic' is a bit premature as well as unfair. People get _weird_ about their phone addictions...

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