So... the Am/Ca Hugo admins, lacking an understanding of Chinese authoritarianism, applied *American* authoritarianism -- targeting marginalized identities first, trying to censor on content but doing it wrong bc of their own ignorance, then laying the blame on other people. Do I have that right?
That seems to cover it. With a patronizing side of "we're doing this to protect our Chinese colleagues (who we have completely cut out of our communications)"
And have hosed not just those marginalized creators, but the Chinese fans, who desperately wanted the con in the first place, and who see SF/Fantasy as *their* last bastion of free speech. The irony, she is thick.
They were also given some shiny things, which I believe they took as a bribe to do authoritarianism, but I haven't heard that there's actual evidence that it was a bribe. Or if it was, it may have just been a "here put on a good show so we get included in the rest of the world's literary culture."
Bribes never come with a clearly labeled reciept. A little wining, a little dining, a little suggestion dropped in a receptive ear.
Having said that, though, focusing on whether and who was bribed distracts from the clear evidence that these USA/CA people, who are still in charge, did a censorship.
Also, reports are that the guy who asked for the dissident dossiers to be compiled, whose vote counting software is "proprietary" and he won't allow people to look at the code, has a history of being fast and loose with vote tabulation to begin with.
bsky.app/profile/peri...
In 2014 I ran the social media accounts for the London Worldcon and the proximity the role gave me allowed me to watch Dave McCarty push the idea that as administrator he could throw away identical ballots that would have brought the 5% rule into play.
He. Does. Not. Care.
In my opinion it looks a whole lot like the Big Media/Real Estate companies that coopted the Worldcon for billion dollar real estate/media deals wined and dined a useful idiot, who they expected to just "avoid controversy", only they misunderstood how much of an idiot they were.
That reminds me SO MUCH of the "We can't have a girl crossdress bc Chinese people don't like that" shit Disney was pulling..... I mean ???? Butterfly Lovers much???? Every single historical cDrama that ever existed????
I believe zombies were banned because they were being used as allegories in subtextually political stories. Time travel is banned when it shows past China as better than present, or something like that. These bans are usually political at heart and the context matters a lot.
I don't know about the subtext in specific stories, I just know that The Untamed had to replace them with mind control, and the whole "we don't want people to think the past was great or they could flee to fictional worlds" thing has just fucked up Chinese dramas so much.......
The thing is that it usually seems to start with a contextually restricted case and then all other creators self-censor to avoid the timesuck of having their finished show blocked until extensive alterations happen....
Our only sources of info are the Am/Ca Hugo admins, so we now have a pretty clear picture of what they thought and did.
I'm not ready to conclude that the only people I'm hearing from are the only people who acted.
Gotta think about the damage to the planes that didn't make it back.
I mean, decrying the bad actions we know about does not in any way elide the ones we don't. I think if there are any remaining secrets to this mess, they'll reveal themselves quickly at this point.
We know that they did a censorship but we don’t know how much pressure came from the government or business interests. Or if it was something built on assumptions.
Frequently in situations like this, people who find themselves facing criticism and pushback are more than happy to throw others under the bus to escape, so I suspect you are right.
Considering "the PRC's authorities" weren't directly involved at all (as the Barkley/Sanford report reveals), I don't think mentioning them is even relevant at this point. Sure, the authoritarian nature of where the con happened this year played a factor, but not as much as the bad actors.
Frankly, it's now clear to me that these people would do the exact same thing if they were holding the con in Florida. Authorities don't need to get involved if authoritarian thinkers trip over themselves preemptively trying to please them.
I think I said that last night on here somewhere (it might have been other social media), that this is the exact kind of quisling collaborator bullshit we can expect to see, and do see, in the more fascist parts of the US. Chuck Tingle and the library in Texas comes to mind.
This is really on point, and part of what people don’t think about where these authoritarian perspectives are concerned. It’s not just the authoritarians with “real power.” It’s the spread of it’s acceptability, and then the self censorship that results, especially for the most vulnerable.
Also based on some earlier translated weibo vague-blogging, it sounded like someone from the China side noticed something was off and tried to step in -- but ended up pushed out instead.
I'm not sure I follow. That doesn't seem responsive?
To be clear, what I meant above was: "I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect more information to surface. If it exists, it may be held by people who'd suffer greatly should they call attention to themselves in connection with this affair."
My read, which may be mistaken, is that she was referring to her personal safety in asking for her email not to be published and for comments not to be allowed.
I'm super curious just how many people had their trips to/from the con paid in full. I mean, most authors don't make a lot of money, so having "someone" offer to cover travel expenses would be amazing, but it should also have been a red flag.
Yea pretty much, dude just went off vague assumptions of what China would want, never talked to a Chinese person on his board, and got basic things like 'Tibet and Nepal are actually different places, also one of your winners went to Tibet and nobody in China cared' wrong.
USA citizens are too eager for any opportunity of conflict with China.
Anything happens and a bunch of chumps come to tell everyone on how this has been orchestrated by - The Party - who will control everything at all costs or some bullshit.
