Katie Mack: People like Musk try to pitch Mars as a backup planet, presumably because they think it’ll get more investment, but it’s always been a ridiculous notion. Humans will go to Mars for the same reasons they go to Antarctica, and in the same spirit. Exploration, science, not a “better life”.

I've come around to understanding such gambits as martian settlement as extraordinarily pessimistic: if the notion is that humanity needs other planets as a hedge against terrestrial oblivion, what is it that makes another planet easier than reversing climate change or dismantling all nukes? nothing

Time was when you wanted to grift someone into a grand vision of the future, you would make it seem enjoyable -- an improvement over existing conditions. Now with space exploration, you can promise hell -- unimaginable misery and desolation -- and people will still go wild for it.

People like Musk try to pitch Mars as a backup planet, presumably because they think it’ll get more investment, but it’s always been a ridiculous notion. Humans will go to Mars for the same reasons they go to Antarctica, and in the same spirit. Exploration, science, not a “better life”.

I don't understand why so many people still take him seriously after he very publicly said some complete nonsense about "terraforming" Mars by dropping nuclear bombs on its ice caps. He clearly has no idea what he's talking about.

There are some legitimately interesting terraforming ideas but they are also terrifying and I don't think we should necessarily ever do them. Humanity spreads like a virus. They're interesting as thought experiments though.

Honestly, it's a very interesting concept. Maybe sometime in the far future, it might be worth serious consideration, but you're right – I don't think humanity is mature enough right now, in either technology or intent.

Humanity itself i have no issue with; it's how we conduct ourselves. I firmly believe we have no right to further expand outward unless and until we make corrections.

I don't believe we're alone. With that in mind, it'd be incredibly disrespectful and horrifying alike to introduce ourselves into the wider community as we are now.

Agreed. We've largely ruined the only planet we have. What right do we have to spread the cancer of humanity to other worlds? If intelligent life exists, that would probably be the point when they show up and obliterate us to prevent spread. They'd see us no different than a virus

Do the ideas get around it taking thousands and thousands of years?

I remember a rather Lysenkoist denouncement when research suggested Mars might be short on vital resources necessary for terraforming. Is there anything more hilarious than terraforming conducted by people who reject any science contrary to their goals? Well, maybe terrestrial geoengineering.

What would be even more hilarious is competing geoengineering projects, each based on its own flawed climate model designed to stroke a trillionaire's ego. Sure, could be another End Permian but a very very funny End Permian.

Ugh. That would be all we need. A bunch of different corporations all doing their own thing and trying to outdo each other to please their investors.

Mars is a dead planet with a dead magnetosphere and toxic salts in the regolith. Terraforming it is a pipe dream. Humans are nowhere near the technology needed to make the planet even marginally habitable.

I wonder if sexual harassment and discrimination will be just as bad on Mars. Most likely, we humans will export that, too.

undark.org/2023/02/06/a...

As Antarctic Fieldwork Ends, a Sexual Harassment Reckoning Loomsundark.org A 2022 report described harassment as a "fact of life" on the continent. Young researchers are particularly alarmed.

Is there any information about sexual harassment on the space station?

More on the discrimination side than the harassment side, but it's interesting to note - since NASA's Group 21 astronauts started flying in late 2018, the number of long-duration ISS crewmembers: US: 17 men, 13 women Other USOS (Japan, Europe, Canada): 10 men, 1 woman Russia: 21 men, 1 woman

that's a great question. I don't know.

Here's one, simulated space station, real harassment

Judith Lapierre - Wikipediaen.m.wikipedia.org

Also let's call it financial harassment from the iss

The first alleged crime committed in space raises questions about jurisdiction in orbitwww.theverge.com A needed discussion as the commercial space industry expands

As it turns out, the "first crime in space!" didn't actually happen, and McClain is still an astronaut in good standing with NASA. www.cnn.com/2020/04/08/u...

NASA astronaut’s estranged wife charged with lying about claim that spouse improperly accessed account from space | CNNwww.cnn.com In the first criminal allegation against someone in space, the claim that an astronaut improperly accessed her estranged wife’s bank account turned out not to be true.

I want to heart this to acknowledge and say thanks to you. but I need an angry unlike face instead.

People on Antarctica are much more isolated than people on the iss.

that was what I was thinking of.

Wherever you go, there you are

10 bucks say he envisions himself as a omniscient founder or leader of the next stage of human evolution, in a utopian society ruled by technocrats and „higher beings“ such as the tech savvy and scientists. His own lord of the flies fantasy with a council of Mengeles to do his bidding.

From what I’ve heard, he legit believes we’re all living in a simulation and he’s the main character in it. Which explains a lot.

It‘s hell of a drugnum.

He's a longterminist. He might consider himself founder (as in "laying the groundwork") of such a society but he knows he'll never be an actual leader.

„Venerable elder“. 😆

Douglas Adams explained what happens when you send people away if they aren't perceived as useful. Send the telephone handset sanitizers off and die from a virulent contagion caused by an unsanitized telephone :)

Indeed. Really don't get his fanboys' fascination with him. One moment he is saying Great Replacement Theory stuff like "Birthrates are too low (they are not worldwide), society will collapse" then musing how we will all be bored when AI is doing everything. His thinking doesn't make sense.

Maybe he's just stupid? Here believes a bunch of stuff that isn't true and his plans and explanations maker no sense. Plus, there's the Cybertruck. Sounds stupid to me.

Crap. I forgot to check my fat-fingered screen typing again. *He believes *make no sense My phone and my fat fingers are conspiring against me.

Bingo. He’s never had to face his stupidity, but he really is stupid. Like "holy fuck, what an idiot" level stupid.

Yep. Intelligence is multi-faceted, and Musk, like many people with power and also plenty of learned people, is very intelligent by some measures, yet quite astoundingly stupid by others.

I'm positive about Musk being stupid in many ways. I'm also stupid in some ways. I'm less convinced about him being very bright in other areas. It's possible to be an effective leader without being very bright in any way. Hiring bright purple and pushing them hard can work.

We mostly all are I'd guess. Can't recall where I read it, but apparently he excels at grasping technical subjects quickly, which if true demonstrates an important but narrow aspect of intelligence. Problem is, STEM-applicable intelligence in particular is prejudicially overrated in these times.

I guess the problem I have is that he displays his stupidity very publicly all the damn time, but his supposed areas of intelligence is something I'd have to take his boosters' word on. I don't take their word on it. Until I see proof to the contrary, my working hypothesis is that he's just a moron.

When Apartheid Clyde talks about "birthrates are too low," you have to insert the silent "white."

Birthrate in high income countries are too low. For example; 30% of the population in Japan are older then 60. And the WHO has published a report stating a shortage of 18 million Healthcare workers (incl 5 million doctors) by 2030. That's in 6 years. Do the math.

Sounds like we need to increase immigration and social spending. Doesn't change the fact that Musk's "great replacement" is racist, paranoid nonsense that is not only basis but which leads to exacerbating the situation through regressive policies and isolationisn

* not only baseless, that is

He learned all the wrong lessons from sci-fi. This is probably because he heard the ad from Blade Runner about the luxurious off-world colonies.

He wants to be a Bond villain. He's probably plotting to steal a Russian submarine.

He tried to buy Russian ICBMs once. That's close enough.

Isaac Asimov. Caves of Steel. The Naked Sun. Robots of Dawn.

Vide Apsley Cherry-Garrard

The human need to explore and learn. It feeds the soul and advances made in its pursuit will benefit people on earth because science has unavoidable collateral benefit. It needs to be a public effort not private though.

It's so frustrating because I do think in general expanding off planet in case something of sufficient mass and velocity comes in at an angle that we can't deal with yet is a vaguely noble goal; but putting our first bases at the bottom of another gravity well with no supplies is completely bonkers.

it's like they managed to identify real problems that are worth thinking about but only want to solve them using solutions from 1950's sci-fi with completely hallucinated timelines.

Even if Mars would be(come) an inhabitable enjoyable planet, how many people would be able to get there? A few thousend? Tens of thousends? Sure, humanity would survive but 7.99bn people (or by that time more like 10bn) would have to stay on earth and still suffer the consequences of climate change.

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