1/ Let me explain one way that today's Trump immunity decision threatens the survival of the Republic.
Under today's ruling, a President would be immune for any way in which he used the military (a "core function"), even to kill American citizens in America. Theoretically, the soldiers who . . .
2/ . . . carried out such illegal orders would be subject to criminal prosecution, even if the President was not. BUT (HUGE BUT) the President has an absolute and unreviewable power to pardon anyone for federal crimes. So, he could promise all soldiers that (a) if they carry out the illegal . . .
3/ . . . order to murder their fellow Americans, they will be pardoned and (b) if the refuse to carry out the illegal order, they will be subjected to the same violence that they refuse to carry out on others.
A President could set up "political troops" to force soldiers into battle, in the . .
4/4 . . . same way that the Soviets used political troops to execute tens of thousands of soldiers who refused orders during World War II.
According to Chief Justice Roberts and his cabal, there is not a thing that anyone could ever do to bring that President to justice.
For shame.
The people who should have done that through all the other things he did either chose not to do so or were purged and now marked for reprisal. All that’s left is the voters.
You are ignoring all the people who held impeachment hearings. It mattered, even if the GOP Senate didn't convict. It showed us who they were. Over half of Congress voted to impeach. You are ignoring the January 6 committee. They worked hard. The voters need to see the fight.
The Republicans who voted to impeach and participated in the Jan 6 committee have been ousted and nominated for reprisal. Until voters throw them out, the Trumpists are in control of all the bodies with the power to push back apart from the presidency.
And being in office isn't the only way to exercise one's voice. Adam Kinsinger and Liz Cheney have power, even if it isn't in an elected role. But we shouldn't just roll over and make it easy for fascists. It will get harder to fight back the longer we wait.
But I guess all the puffery about Second Amendment keeping us safe from tyranny applies only when Democrats suggest that everyone should have health care.
In theory, the murderous troops could be prosecuted at the state level.
But, of course, POTUS could simply target any state prosecutors and judges who are willing to bring and maintain those state charges.
You can't remove state criminal prosecutions to federal court.
The officers could try bringing a collateral federal case to enjoin the state prosecutors or courts, though it wouldn't succeed under current federal law.
In civil cases seeking damages or injunctions where federal jurisdiction could have existed? Yes, those can be removed.
In state criminal prosecutions brought because the official acts violate state criminal laws? No. There is simply no mechanism in federal law to do so.
“You can’t”, but the President could because he’d just insist they do it regardless of legality, under threat of violence. He can’t be prosecuted and everybody else involved gets pardons.
As far as I can tell, this fucks the entire system of government 100% completely. Please tell me I’m wrong?
Well, yeah, that was my point further up. We can't really debate procedural or substantive legalities if POTUS can play the "I will just ignore any law I like because I'm immune and threaten everyone else into going along with it" card.
So theoretically a President could use the military to assassinate elected and appointed officials (legislative and judicial, federal and state) to pave the way to unfettered authoritarianism?
With all her many terrible flaws, I love what America *could* be at her best, and never wish to see political violence.
Were that horror to come upon us, I seriously wonder how long before the fragging that checked commanders in Vietnam would start among US based forces.
Nah, there is always somebody listening, & willing to snitch; that’s how the communists kept a tight grip on power! This will decimate the command chain & the ranks! It’s best to prevent it, before it becomes reality!
VOTE BLUE ALL DOWN BALLOT! 🔥
Not really. He’d make up some flimsy bullshit about national security. Doesn’t need to stand up to any actual scrutiny with the GOP and courts backing him.
I think soldiers carrying out illegal presidential orders would have a strong argument that they too are immune even without a pardon. Since courts cannot review Article II orders, neither can soldiers.
I think that the right wing whackos on SCOTUS think that Impeachment is the proper remedy. Which, until like 2010 I might have agreed with, when the GOP still had some shame.
You can’t preemptively pardon someone before they’ve done the act, but as far as I know even if the pardon were itself part of a crime (e.g., an official act done in exchange for a bribe) the pardon couldn’t be undone.
