The 14th Amendment says if you were involved in an insurrection you can't be president. SCOTUS said they won't allow anyone to enforce that because of reasons they made up.
The Constitution doesn't say the president is immune from criminal law. SCOTUS decided he is because of reasons they made up.
At a minimum it seems like Biden should revisit every decision on e.g. loan forgiveness that any judge has blocked, and just say, nice judgement you made there but this is an official act so I can do it anyway.
Sure Biden is safe but his order is not. He can ignore the court as presidents have done before so nothing new there but the danger is that a new president might say "that was illegal and now anyone who benefited from that illegal act it goes back to status quo ante." Is that an ex post facto law?
I mean... the ruling very explicitly did not rule on the transfer of the orders...
If I tell my Treasury Sec to eliminate all student loan debt in defiance of Supreme Court orders, it's not clear at all that my immunity wouldn't transfer. The court implies it does.
Presidents don't actually DO the work, themselves. They tell other people to do the work. The work getting done is an extension of their will, however, as the court sees it.
While they left the opening there... This court will never allow Bill Barr to be prosecuted for carrying out orders
But not because of presidential immunity. And anything Barr did in response to Trump orders is still considered okay by SCOTUS? Is that how it would go?
Interesting. I'm less certain and I don't think the court addressed that did they? I guess if they keep going down the road of "unitary executive" they might get there. But "just following orders" seems a bit thin. Even soldiers can be prosecuted and "orders" is generally not protective.
Not sure what you mean. Transfer to Treasury Sec? You just pardon him/her. You remain immune forever. But the order can be rescinded no? Court could say "that was illegal and invalid." Won't matter until someone calls it like a new president but your student loan debt could be restored.
Assuming people go along with him, the order is safe for his term in office. Presidents revising each others' kingly orders will just produce chaos, though.
Yes that's true. Interesting point about the chaos reversing orders would produce. My sense is that this court generates much chaos, but the 6 are just too thick to see when it is coming. I mean didn't they just violate their own Loper Bright decision and now allow appeals from earlier rules?
Chaos can be ignored by those who insist on principle come what may.
They're like adolescents playing with libertarian philosophy. Who cares, when you're right?
Yes I've long thought that Roberts and his ilk are spoiled little elitists who think they are smarter than everyone else and know what's best. Whereas they are perhaps the most out of touch w reality people in the entire nation. It is hubris at its absolute worst. And we will all pay for it.
Is there actually a criminal penalty for ignoring a Supreme Court ruling? I was under the impression that there was nothing easy stopping a president from pulling an Andrew a Jackson and saying “Let them enforce it”
Isn’t there presumably a database that houses all federal student loan information? What prevents a president from ordering those servers to be permanently incapacitated after today’s ruling? I mean I know it’s nuts but that’s where we’re at.
this was exactly my thought, but they'll find some way to weasel their way around it and say "oh, we were still right, but this doesn't count because [bullshit reasoning]"
modern conservatives have never had a problem with being painfully obvious in their inconsistency and hypocrisy
but... the issue wasn't that Biden would've been criminally prosecuted. If the loan forgiveness is found to not be legal, the agencies won't execute it.
Biden would have to, like, threaten the agency heads with physical violence to get them to execute illegal orders.
You mean commit a criminal act to get the agency to do what he wants (actually he could just fire them and replace w who will do what he wants). Court says it's illegal? Biden says, tough. Arrest me.
The problem is that an official act declared illegal or unconstitutional even if Biden forced it through could be reversed by next president. Those who got loan forgiveness "illegally" could have the loan restored and would be prosecuted if they didn't pay. Biden would be safe but not his order
Yes that's what I mean. Presumably we're not cool with presidents threatening civil servants to get them to do illegal things.
He could replace agency leadership with toadies right now.
