There is a point at which we would all agree that Biden needs to step down, right? Like, if he was suddenly Dianne-Feinstein-at-the-end levels of visibly too old, I could call for him to step without being lumped in with Trump supporters, right?
And there's obviously a point at which the question would go away, right? Like, if he miraculously improves to even Joe-Biden-in-2012 levels of sharp and energetic, and shows this in every public appearance, calls for more debates, etc.
The current reality is decidedly in between those two extremes. So what we're arguing about is whether his actual mental state is close enough to the first one that he should call it and step down. My position is that the debate showed it is. That doesn't make me a Trump supporter.
What if we focused on the most important priority America has ever faced, which is stopping trump, and we did that by sticking with the only person who has ever succeeded at doing that?
Agree about the most important priority America faces! I think we could either do that with Biden or with Harris. If Biden were to die, heaven forbid, we would 100% unite behind Harris and not just give up. Right?
Definitely.
I just donβt see how all this βShould Biden step down because heβs old?β discourse helps anything, especially since the bad side isnβt calling for their also decrepitly old candidate who is literally, openly evil to step down.
Our best chance is the one who already beat evil before.
Here's the thing: Every leftist and liberal should be united in beating Trump. Biden's mental health is completely irrelevant except to the effect it has on the election. If his campaign can get a corpse elected, then he shouldn't step down. If an energetic Biden will lose, we need a new candidate.
Worrying about the candidate's capacity to be president, whoever that candidate is, is something we can address on January 20th. Until then, the only consideration is getting Trump's opponent elected.
One way or another, all of us will leave the Democratic convention in August as allies, fiercely determined to get Trump's opponent elected. Maybe I should just be focusing on that, since neither of us have much say in what Biden decides right now anyway.
So, you mention getting a corpse elected. Can we take that literally for a second? What if Biden died? Is your position that the campaign should then try to elect his corpse, instead of trying to elect Kamala Harris? As long as the polls showed the corpse still had a chance?
To be clear, I would vote for his corpse!!! But I'd hope the party would replace him with a living person instead. My current position is the same. Biden is a good man and has been a good president. I will fight hard to elect him if he's the nominee. But I think he has passed an age limit.
No. My position is that I have no earthly idea what the right thing to do is, and I pretty immediately distrust anyone who thinks they do.
I'll vote for Biden, I'll vote for Harris. But every argument I've seen for making a switch seems pretty flawed to me.
I'll fully embrace agreement on uncertainty about the best course of action. It sounds like you and I come down on opposite sides of whether saying or switching is wiser, but we agree that it's a hard question and we don't know for sure. And we agree that regardless of what happens, Trump must lose.
No, but you've been very vocal about needing to replace Biden instead of just letting it play out.
Since neither of us control the outcome, passionate support for Kamala can be seen as an attack on Biden and an attack on Biden can definitely be seen as supporting Trump.
If that makes any sense :-)
If passionate support for Kamala can be seen as an attack on Biden, can passionate support for Biden be seen as an attack on Kamala?
I'm willing to extend you the benefit of the doubt. All I ask is the same. I've repeatedly said Biden is a good president and I will back him fully if he stays in.
Sorry, I wasn't judging, I was just pointing out how you can be perceived and why you might be getting attacked.
You do you. As I said, we don't control the decision, so while I have my preferences, I'm just waiting to see what happens.
If it's not Joe and not Kamala it IS Trump, that I do know.
The answer is no. Thereβs a non zero amount of people whose only action is voting once every 4 years & throwing tantrums at critiques or realism. Those people also need to self examine their hatred of Kamala despite loving the Biden admin
People who love Biden but hate Kamala are interesting ones π
I have opinions about Harris, but what Biden supporters think of her is secondary.
From the start of the campaign, the goal has been to peel off just a few % of the persuadable T voters, and I suspect Harris will have a much harder time doing that than Biden.
I disagree. Polls in the average don't show Harris doing significantly better or worse than Biden vs. Trump (some show slightly better, some show slightly worse). My gut tells me she would do better, yours tells you she would do worse. That's fine.
I'd be interested in polls of just the persuadable T voters who've spent the last 8 years stewing in Fox disinfo about the Black, female, HBCU alumna, Gavin Newsom appointee from SF.
But if she can bring to the stump the fire she once showed on the Judicial Comm, I'm all for it.
