Chet Sandberg: “I won’t vote for someone who supports genocide” is a valid response to genocide. It does not require a follow up justification. It is, by itself, a valid political stance. It doesn’t require a next step. It doesn’t require having the answer for stopping genocide. Any answer starts with a “No.”

“I won’t vote for someone who supports genocide” is a valid response to genocide. It does not require a follow up justification. It is, by itself, a valid political stance. It doesn’t require a next step. It doesn’t require having the answer for stopping genocide. Any answer starts with a “No.”

This is voting as a moral pledge rather than voting as a consequentialist action. Sorry, but prioritizing your personal morality and lack of understanding of how a democratic system works does not absolve you of the outcomes and results of your actions. bsky.app/profile/chet...

“I won’t vote for someone who supports genocide” is a valid response to genocide. It does not require a follow up justification. It is, by itself, a valid political stance. It doesn’t require a next step. It doesn’t require having the answer for stopping genocide. Any answer starts with a “No.”

Sorry, bud, but the Ethicists disagree with your bullshit. qz.com/717255/ethic...

Ethicists say voting with your heart, regardless of the consequences, is actually immoralqz.com “The purpose of voting is not to express your fidelity to a world view."

Oh wow, I guess it’s cool that people’s personal values aren’t dictated by what a utilitarian ethicist writes

Oh wow, I wasn't aware you'd bought into American hyper-individualism

They aren’t the same things. Utilitarianism was used to justify genocide, and will be again.

Individualism will be used to justify genocide get so much worse because you find intervention icky. Also, hi chet, nice to see you after you clearly muted me!

Very convenient that his analysis can stop there and he doesn't have to consider anything else.

Yeah, if you regard every viable candidate as supporting genocide, that stance isn't about actually fixing anything, it's about being able to say (however speciously) "well, *I* didn't contribute to this, I am still pure"

Exactly. I like what the first student in the article below had to say. Basically, “Trump and Biden are equally bad on Gaza, but Biden is movable on other issues I care about.” I don’t agree with the first part, but he’s an example of why that view doesn’t need to lead to nihilism.

Gaza Isn’t Root of Biden’s Struggles With Young Voters, Polls Showwww.nytimes.com Young voters are far more likely than other Americans to support Palestinians. But few cite the conflict as a top source of discontent with the president.

I would love for people like Chet to have the courage of their convictions. Pull an HD Thoreau and refuse to pay your taxes that support genocide in your view and go to prison for it. Just absolutely spineless losers.

"But some of my taxes go to support things I really care about!" Right. They are SO CLOSE to getting it.

(And then have your aunt pay your bail while your mom does your laundry.)

That part

And that purity is viable and preferable to the stain of killing 2 million innocents.

Adult Content

Labeled by Bluesky Moderation Service

Which you failed to stop, you monster

"It does not require a follow up justification. It is, by itself, a valid political stance. It doesn’t require a next step." This answer would have gotten you an F in both my philosophy AND my philosophy logic courses in college, which is quite an accomplishment. lolol.

Like, you can pretend that you don't have to engage with the consequences of your action, but that's not how it plays out irl. There are immediate and material reactions to your choices, and you have just as much agency in choosing to do what you do as everyone else does.

Isn’t this the guy who railed about how bad American hyper individualism is?

Sure is!

I haven’t read any Marx since High School, and I’m pretty sure that I know more about Marxism than ol’ Chet here.

Why are you being so insulting? That won't persuade anyone. I understand that this is high stakes and the idea of a second Trump term is horrifying. But you're not going to convince anybody like this. It's momentarily satisfying to insult people, but trying to persuade people is be more important.

This dude has been persistently unpersuadable for multiple days now, and has taken pride in being deliberately dishonest.

So stop talking to him. Or keep talking to him, but keep in mind that there are lurkers not in the discussion who also feel horrible about Biden's support for Israel's war on Gaza. And maybe some of those lurkers are persuadable, even if this dude isn't, so be persuasive for them.

The lurkers who are persuadable aren’t taking offense on behalf of a bad faith actor like this guy. The lurkers also respond well to people shutting down bad faith actors. I’ve personally changed several lurkers’ minds with this method.

Rude

Labeled by Bluesky Moderation Service

Lol I'm blocked by everyone who replied to you. For some reason, nobody has the outrage I was expecting. Genocide is happening and we have to vote for more? Because of Trump? bsky.app/profile/htow...

Living in Texas? I just want people to care again. When Trump was president those pink pussy hats said they would burn down the country if Trump went after Roe. Well It happened under Biden Where is that outrage? In the closet with the pink pussy hat?

We all just gotta vote harder than we’ve ever voted before. Again.

Found some accounts to block in this thread.

Here is another bsky.app/profile/anel...

bsky.app

Blocked already. Smartypants Democratic Party loyalist?

Dead-enders to the very end.

Not sure what you mean by "valid" here? It is certainly a choice you are allowed to make. It just isn't clear how it does a single thing to end the genocide, particularly given that one possibility is things get much worse if the President that Netanyahu prefers wins.

I think the reason I always struggle with these kinds of posts is that I am mostly interested in ending the genocide and it seems like here the primary concern is feeling good. I am ok with feeling bad about myself if it means fewer Palestinians die.

You don't get to exploit the corpses of dead Palestinians as an election campaign for the genocidal freak who's responsible for their slaughter Fuck you condescending scumbags who pretend you give a fuck You're a blight on humanity

Right. Only you get to do that, got it.

Voting for Biden also doesn’t end the genocide. Or slow global warming. Or prevent cops from harassing protestors.

It objectively does help address global warming actually, but yeah voting for anyone doesn't single handedly change, it just changes the landscape and power map you are organizing against, in a way that *extremely matters* and it's hard to understand why you would simply abandon that tool

An easy step in the wrong direction is still a step in the wrong direction. After thirty years, it adds up to a very long way from any solution.

That doesn't address my point or even really have anything to do with it. If your feelings are more important than Palestinian lives, own it. If not, then you probably want to consider actual outcomes of your choices and how they impact pro-Palestine organizing, which means not abandoning a tactic.

What you don’t understand is that I was YOU in 2012, making very similar arguments to this to people I thought were wrong for not voting. I’ve BEEN you. This argument absolutely will not work to persuade me.

consider the actual outcomes of a genocide occurring right now

My feelings are for Palestinian lives Like Hind and tens of thousands of innocent children just like her You need to own the fact you're actively campaigning for this I hope her screams of terror keep you awake at night you genocidal freak

Body of missing Palestinian girl Hind Rajab found in destroyed carwww.aljazeera.com The body of 6-year-old Hind Rajab has been found decomposing in the car where her family were killed by Israeli gunfire.

aoc said this 4 years ago and what was the result

I like to play this fun game where I go look at the profile and timelies of people who are "giving the election away to Trump" by not voting Biden. Chet's in California. It's polling +25 Biden. He's in a very blue state, like many leftists. You need to calm down. Maybe Google "electoral college"

You wanna help your cause, go knock some doors in a swing state. Vote shaming here is a waste of everybody's fucking time.

If people feel shame that's their business, all I'm doing is making a *strategic* case focused on actual outcomes. If not voting for Biden would end the genocide then of course people should do that, but none of them can ever explain how that would work, because it wouldn't.

Post