Daniel Drezner: Whoa. www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/202...

Whoa. www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/202...

Worse than Mississippi takes some effort.

Texas works very long and hard to achieve this and still managed to fail at it somehow

Texas has good parts.

Yeah but I move around a lot these days, I'm not always in Texas

Mississippi preparing to change their state motto to "At least we're not the UK..."

Thank God for East Anglia

Surely what this should encourage is to reconsider whether GDP per capita is that useful as a comparative measurement of development among Western democracies. Seems pretty clear it's not!

I think what this is saying is that the US as a whole is much more productive than Western Europe, and that shows in the GDP per capita stats of even its poorest states. But the distribution of that productivity is so atrocious you cannot use it to measure development or general well-being.

UK and US Gini Coefficients are almost identical.

US Gini is (substantially) closer to Mexico's than to the UK's or the EU average.

Map and chart showing the percent of total income going to the 1%

Source: wid.world

Home - WID - World Inequality Databasewid.world Home The source for global inequality data. Open access, high quality wealth and income inequality data developed by an international academic consortium.

ourworldindata.org/grapher/econ... Define "almost identical".

Income inequality: Gini coefficientourworldindata.org The Gini coefficient measures inequality on a scale from 0 to 1. Higher values indicate higher inequality. Depending on the country and year, the data relates to income measured after taxes and benefi...

Ergo, the rest of the EU bla bla bla.

It would only encourage that if your starting conclusion is "America bad" and judge development measures based on how well they reinforce your conclusion. Anyone else can take the figures as they are without feeling like they have to denigrate GDP as an economic measurement.

Or, you realize there is dissonance between GDP-based stats and other key metrics like life expectancy and so a stat that looks at economic activity with no concern on how it is distributed is a pretty shallow measure of a state.

as somebody who isn't from either country, GDP per capita really isn't a terribly revealing statistic.

Okay let's just use these metrics instead.

isn't that the same metric?

Wages v investment income?

GDP per capita does not directly correlate to standard of living. Every European country has universal healthcare, guaranteed parental leave, and just substantially greater social safety net than even most generous US state. Being poor in the US remains worse in many measurable ways than in Europe

If the UK were 51st state, most would far prefer to live there than Mississippi… Average Salary UK: $44,819 Mississippi: $28,732 Paid Leave UK: 28 days/year Miss: 0/year College Degree UK: 22.6% Miss: 11.8% Life Expectancy UK: 80.7 years Miss: 71.9 Cancer Incidence UK: 296.1/100,000 Miss: 471.4

Yeah, I’m highly suspicious of the original statistics. (But do you know when these figures are from?)

That is far from wholly true. The Republic of Ireland has public healthcare; not universal healthcare, and medical debt is a real thing.

It’s not even accurate. The UK has a higher GDP per capita by almost 20k$!

Or 10k depending on the specific metric.

Let's counter this narrative. Top 10 happiest countries in the world: Finland Denmark Iceland Sweden Israel (really?) Netherlands Norway Luxembourg Switzerland Australia The U.S. falls at 23. The U.K., post Brexit, at 20. Which is more important?

Hmm I feel like the Israel polling might not be evenly distributed?

I suspect their score is going down. Not everyone there is happy with the situation, protests are increasing, and calls for Netanyahu's resignation are growing. But Israel and Australia are the only non-European countries on the list. Iceland isn't EU, but is pretty tied to Europe.

I think OP meant they’re probably not counting everyone in occupied Palestine even though “Israel” claims that land or is in de jure command. If you factor in the stateless people of the occupied West Bank and Gaza, they might plummet to the bottom of the list.

Oh, definitely.

Sure, let’s discuss Israel because…..? Definitely.

I mean, I bet white people in Jim Crow would’ve scored pretty high on it as well

GDP Per Capita is a weird statistic and a few people at the top skews things quite a bit. Elon Musk getting a 50 Billion Dollar payday doesn't make the Average U.S. Citizen any richer Jeff Bezos owning the world's largest Yacht doesn't either. But it's not ALL imaginary if we check MEDIAN stats.

Yeah median income gets you the same result that the UK ($41k USD) would be below the poorest US State (MS, $49k). That's without PPP adjustments and at current conversion rates so it could be off a bit... But it's not particularly close.

This chart is pretty recent.

Yeah but the difference in GDP per capita (76k vs 46k) is certainly more stark than than the median household income Also Median Wage (MS-2022) 45180 Median Wage (UK 44261) are much closer - but that is STILL the poorest (and lowest salary) U.S. State. Not great time to be a Brit.

Yeah there can definitely be measurement effects (and the surveyed definition of households can also vary between countries and other stuff.) But there's really no way to cut it other than to say the UK is substantially less wealthy than the US.

idk, there's still a lot missing here - better infrastructure, universal healthcare, cheaper schooling, etc. The UK still provides services to its citizens, even if quality has gone way down that's still >> US. Less wealthy, yes, for sure. But would anyone choose to move to MS over the UK?

and elon musk's salary has nothing to do with GDP

The GDP per capita being unbalanced by extreme wealth is going to end up being a wash between the US and UK because of how many wealthy international people, particularly Russian oligarchs, use the UK as a tax haven.

I think the results of Israel shows how poorly defined these happiness surveys are. Though they provide another narrative, it is not a meaningful one.

So, would you, or would you not be happier if you lived in a country where one illness or injury would not plunge you and your entire family into abject poverty and debt? Just saying.

Or where there is a non-zero chance of getting shot every time you go shopping or send your kids to school.

You are 'just saying' what exactly? Access to healthcare is great! It is also measured better by indicators other than self reported happiness. Sorry, I don't think we are in disagreement, I just don't understand what it is that you are trying to convey.

FWIW, that survey was conducted prior to October 7, 2023.

Right? Euro personal incomes being somewhat lower, but getting substantially more paid time off, better social insurance, etc, what's the net effect in (hard to GDP quantify) quality of life?

Hmmm. Came here to say similar. I have to say, as a UK'er, the evidence right now is that kids here are going to university, then... leaving the UK. I think in mainland Europe, if there's a per capita financial differential with the US, that is outweighed by the generalised sense of wellbeing.

Post