one of the realities of massive popular movements is that there will inevitably be idiots within their ranks. movements need to be good at identifying and weeding them out, but the media also needs to avoid giving them disproportionate attention
If you're trying to win people over to your cause by vandalizing a library, or Stonehenge, or an oil painting, you are not remotely helping your cause.
"It raises awareness!"
Yes, awareness that you're a fucking idiot. Nothing good.
if you’re a sympathetic but not particularly radical ally of the Palestinian liberation movement, you have to be aware that you’re the target of a certain type of pearl clutching about protestor conduct
I don’t think they even need to be excised, since there’s no real evidence that these actions move the needle on any cause anyway. Folks who hate a cause use it to justify their hate and folks who like a cause excuse it as one-off bad actors.
WTF are these organisers? It's not a debate club. Sorry Peter but you are better than this.
The media will fuck us over regardless. Don't waste a second worrying about it. OR telling other people what they can and can't do about this fuckery.
The suffragettes did not ask nicely. Neither should we.
Yeah, but how are we ever going to see change? Non-right wing media is ran by NYT status-quo types and driven by ad revenue, which encourages outrage driven engagement, and nothing creates outrage quite like "find the stupid one and let them talk" content. Big hill, no momentum.
My read is that the Biden White House would be calling the protesters antisemitic with or without any “bad apples”. They seem to go out of their way to do it.
sigh. if you're Jewish you also get--well, my mother has a putative friend who's been VERY upset about pro Palestine uni protests since before it was cool. recently accused my very Boomer liberal doesn't watch news much mother of being "pro Hamas" because she wouldn't get all agitated with her.
I agree there is a wider range of legit protest targets for Palestinian liberation bc we are subsidizing Israel’s war crimes. But the OP was about Just Stop Oil which gets the vast majority of media coverage for environmental protests despite never making a connection to the supposed purpose.
The library shit was stupid, but it’s been astonishing how much more news there’s been on that when someone tried to attack other protesters on the campus with a car and could’ve killed someone
it is maddening how environmentalist or Palestinian supports are forced to talk about it or push them out, but the proud boys get to walk the streets and give interviews.
In fairness the media focusing on the idiots is also a choice, no?
(And I suppose a good PR campaign is happy to direct media attention to the idiots in an opposing campaign.)
The civil rights movement, as part of their activist training, intentionally weeded these people out because they recognized they were counterproductive to the cause.
There's a reply with a 100 likes telling lefties to "get 10.000 people to surround BP offices" and like, the last people tried to block a pipeline a lot of lives were destroyed by police
If the cops crush the responsible, intelligent protests and violate the rights of upstanding citizens, inevitably a different sort of group will be left standing on the streets...
The media point is very true, but it would help if there were more on-point/targeted protests happening that allowed the media to refocus. Hunger strikes, for example, are a good fit for Palestinian protest -- media-friendly, sympathetic, w/ a clear deadline for action -- but they're not happening.
I’m sympathetic to this and try to remain level headed about it, but “publicly vandalizing irreplaceable priceless antiquities” is gonna draw a lot of media attention
Right, “look at these annoying dipshits; this is what this movement is all about” is a media tic and bad-faith propaganda strategy, and we should be mindful of that, but in some circumstances bad publicity is unavoidable
Idiotic framing.
If you are still on the fence in regards to climate change (or BLM or Genocide) aint no amount of being nice thats going to convince you - this is about getting headlines and pissing off smug and comfortable libs and forcing them to demand their politicians comply
Tens of thousands of people marched in London and not one media org reported it, two people throw harmless cornflower and food dye on Stonehenge and headlines and donations roll on for days...
They are though.
See, currently the government are working on this: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-engl...
Which will cause a lot more damage to the stones than some custard powder, increase traffic and pollution etc
Meanwhile those freaking out over "paint" that was custard powder just showed their arse
Suddenly have a bunch of scumbags demanding the protesters be locked up for life (after spending years claiming to support climate action) complaining about "vandalism" then when everyone else finds out it was nothing of the sort the rest of the public realize how fraudulent their support was
i'm not going to die on the hill of defending JSO b/c i do think they should stop, but have they ever caused permanent damage to anything valuable? i feel like there's this big outcry when it happens, and then it turns out the painting or w/e is totally fine but by that point no one cares anymore
Why are we supposed to weed anyone out? What value Kruse's hysterics when he will not lift a finger to make a difference if it risks challenging power? There is no possible vandalism worse than the crime they seek to prevent. If you don't like it, do better. The media will nutpick. So the fuck what?
I don't know if Peter is talking about him specifically but this might be what he's saying. Kruse wants the movements squashed and acting like this is the end of the world helps. Look at the replies. It works and he doesn't have to do anything
I think with the just stop oil type protests the idiocy gets so much attention because everyone knows they could go attack private jets or whatever and everyone would sympathise with the protesters, so there’s an extra layer of frustration.
unfortunately idiocy attracts mockery, therefore eyeballs. also other idiots non ironically.
only pushback I can see is getting more spokespeople to speak against the idiocy -really colorfully-. Say what you will about the Lincoln Project, they're good at that. So are a double handful of House Reps
