I just want to beg people to tell me what happens when we completely give up on the electoral system.
Tell me what you imagine happening.
I want to be able to see it. Tell me how it doesn't involve things getting so much worse, millions dying, before there's any chance of something better.
I hate capitalism. I hate Joe Biden.
But tell me how it's not me and my people that wind up completely fucked under a right-wing administration if we all choose to opt out.
Tell me what to do.
I see our only option as trying to do what we can to try and prevent Trump from taking office.
And then we actually keep organizing. Both electoral organizing and actual, real, community organizing. Popular education. New parties. Mutual aid networks.
Destroying the status quo Democratic party.
I am not trying to be a vote scold or being abstract. I literally want to know how we are going to opt out and burn down the system and not just end up getting killed by our own military.
Maybe it's just the trauma from actually being at violent uprisings and protests, but I don't think we win.
Like, have you been on the other side of a tank? Have you had acoustic weapons pointed at you and your cell phone shut down? And that was WITH independent media and social media and public concern.
We cannot buy enough weapons to compete. We will die.
We've been in a bubble in this country since '45. We've destroyed lives & governments at our whim, & no one believed it would ever affect us. We were exceptional. Now, here we are
"..the question is not How many can survive? but rather what sort of existence is possible for those that do survive?"
For me it's just both.
Like, I see it coming & all I know to do is keep voting especially down ballot, but also just doing whatever we can as local communities to take care of our own & focus on our survival of what's to come regardless of the outcome/efficacy of the votes.
I was talking with a young person recently who was complaining about protests not being militant enough and how teargas was common at protests in other parts of the world/country and should be expected.
And I wanted to be like "what is your theory of change here?"
I have had multiple debates with people On Here about this and sure, keep living in your fantasy world where that violent revolution somehow works out peacefully with nobody dying and healthcare for all.
If we actually did burn down the system, it wouldn’t just be our military we would have to worry about killing us.
Every city in the country is ~72 hours from famine. And cities become uninhabitable if the water system fails. That infrastructure doesn’t run automatically.
Your way is the only way
A *LOT* would die. The only way I could see “winning” in armed conflict vs a higher tech military would be Vietnam situation. The bigger power would basically just have to give up because it became too unpopular/impossible to fight insurgents 24/7… We do NOT want to get there. Pls vote scold away!
I'm wondering about that. Wasn't what happened in Iraq (with IED and the like) a more modern version of that, with enough attrition to eventually lead to withdrawal?
I am not so sure. The US has that tech now and it’s still not doing great in the Middle East… But there are a lot of different factors at play beyond my expertise. In any case, I basically agree with you: it’s very unlikely and not a path that people should consider particularly viable.
I want to know the answer too. I get that we’re all tired of voting for the supposed “lesser of 2 evils”, but this is genuinely an election unlike any other in living memory and people cannot stay home/protest vote. I don’t see what the end game is during this election cycle by not participating.
Ty for saying this. I get that we’re broken but I’ve been involved since 18 & I can’t handle the “everything is awful so f it” idea. It can/will get worse & when the military is against us, we’re f’d. Non participation resulted in centrist Dems vs. an unhinged GOP who will murder us & our families.
OR we slap on a band aid for 2/4 yrs, support Progressive candidates, push back against centrists, expand the courts, overturn every ruling from this illegitimate court as well as 2012’s Citizens United which is huge in why our Gov doesn’t work for us & why we reclassified as an Oligarchy In 2014.
Not voting isn’t a statement. It’s a threat to myself, my family, & every single person I care for & we’re not disposable in some fantasy coup. Non participation got us here & I’m sick & tired of living in fear so I’m voting for a band aid & I hope to (whatever) that we win & get our shit together.
on like, day ONE after the election, we start taking over the local party infrastructures. start showing up en masse to local meetings and toss their leadership, go from there.
You just don't understand the plan as it was laid out in 2016 & 2020:
Step 1) Opt out of voting against Trump
Step 2) Spend the next 4 years doing fuckall to change or fix the faults in the system
Step 3) Get upset that nothing got changed or fixed
Step 4) Go to Step 1
It's pretty straightforward.
I recommend sharing this article, it’s by far the best explanation of why you need to vote even though almost certainly you’re never gonna get a candidate you love: medium.com/@cshirky/the...
The non-Trump contingent of the country is divided and without leaders we can get excited about, an alternative future we want to do more than vote for. They will dance to and from the polls. We will be going like lambs to slaughter.
I’m afraid the accelerationist left did not logic their way into their views and so will not be logiced out of it by Ashley.
The only thing they actually care about is one-upping their comrades over the social appearance of ideological purity. It’s a dumb religion divorced from reality.
There are sane people on the real Left with whom I share goals and disagree with on some methods & details.
But there are many people who exist in the Leftist Cinematic Universe where their ideology is Secretly a Majority and a (left) Revolution is inevitable without allies, power or effort
tankies can also gtfo (but I repeat myself)
people who can't organize a basic "who does the chores this week" calendar without descending into chaos and backbiting are not it.
Popular Peoples' Front of Judea: not interested.
people literally saying not to vote, again, gtfo
yeh. look, I know i'm bougie. I try to listen to people who're far to the left of me who walk the walk, talk the talk. even if I can't see how what they do scales up, I see how it works at a community level, local, even state, depending where, context.
armchair revolutionaries can gtfo.
