Matt Ficke: I like grit because it also connotes character, like doing the right thing instead of the easier shortcut.

very honestly coming around to the view that the paradigm of non-toxic, community-driven masculinity we need can be shorthanded by "dudes rock"

It's fun to slag on teenage boys but IMO they're not so much ideologically right-wing as they are desperate for the approval and mentorship of older dudes a lot of the time, and we are letting them down on that score (either by trying to indoctrinate them or not interacting with them at all).

curiosity, perseverence, fellowship, sprawl: it's all there!

Resilience is another big one. Gettin’ back up on that horse, &c. Dude coded, also extremely valuable.

yeah maybe grit or resilience is a better word than perseverence?

I like grit because it also connotes character, like doing the right thing instead of the easier shortcut.

Same. All three actually have slightly different valences.

Angela Duckworth’s book on grit is interesting, kind of a combination of conscientiousness and perseverance. This is reminding me that I’ve been meaning to do a dive into this stuff, feels like there’s been a lot of research in this area since I last took psych 20 years ago.

also gets us away from the Mars Rover thing, which is both plus and minus

Mars Rover is extremely, indeed almost paradigmatically, dudes rock.

A lot of the good space programs are. Voyager, Hubble. Apollo was I think on the hubristic side.

Agree on Apollo at a program level, but in a way that hubris enabled the very Dudes Rock moment of Apollo 13.

"dudes rock" does not exclude hubris I don't think

I think it is essentially hubristic to some degree, in the main.

Apollo is still the gold standard, though Apollo 1 was the programs biggest black eye. Dudes, on the moon, rocking.

Dudes, on the biggest rock you can see in the sky, rocking, while collecting rocks.

I think you've just identified a key element of why 17776 works that I had not previously thought to examine.

How dudes rock is something? How many fist bumps went into the conception and execution? It’s not a bad initial metric.

Gumption, imo.

remember when "grit" was the exclusive domain of grifters?

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