It's fun to slag on teenage boys but IMO they're not so much ideologically right-wing as they are desperate for the approval and mentorship of older dudes a lot of the time, and we are letting them down on that score (either by trying to indoctrinate them or not interacting with them at all).
What is this “dudes rock” discussed in the thread? It just produces a mental image of Jack black being silly which I suspect from the description isn’t really all that off, conceptually, but is a very incomplete description
Angela Duckworth’s book on grit is interesting, kind of a combination of conscientiousness and perseverance.
This is reminding me that I’ve been meaning to do a dive into this stuff, feels like there’s been a lot of research in this area since I last took psych 20 years ago.
That doesn't really help if Dudes Rock is supposed to be the new masculinity.
If it goes the way it has historically, if enough (and "enough" doesn't have to be a very high percentage) ladies Dig Hole, Dig Hole will no longer be a dude thing.
Maybe this time will be different! IDK.
I don't know. It feels disingenuous. I don't think the problem is a lack of options to be "masculine" but trouble finding a fulfilling role in society & community. If we want to solve that by finding positive outlets for testosterone-linked traits, we need to be honest about what those traits are
There are ways to use curiosity, fellowship, perseverance, etc. as character traits that help direct risk-taking urges and an increased capacity for physical force into constructive ends, but I don't think it neuters men for those positive traits to be gender-nonspecific.
I think we've lost, or at least had to retreat from, that battle. The world's not ready to ditch the idea of "masculine" vs "feminine" traits. Encouraging constructive masculinity beats the hell out of toxic masculinity and would make the world safer than it is now. It's not nothing.
It's a very tough pill to swallow, but also I don't want to be like those people who oppose incremental progress because they can't have the whole thing all at once.
I just genuinely do not believe "curiosity" and "perseverance" are distinctly masculine traits! I'm on board with the idea that saying that these positive traits are part of being a "good man" or whatever, but when you call them "masculine" traits you're suggesting a distinction that does not exist.
I feel like this is more like saying 'this component should be endorsed, modelled and welcomed in building a masculine self-image and world-view, so those who wish to be specifically masculine will have this available to them.'
So, not exclusive, but with the potential coding.
but for real i feel in my bones that there's good room for normal and healthy masculinity in dem politics. Just normal guys being guys stuff. Drinking a beer with the boys after work and heading back home to Gladys, my wife of 17 years type stuff.
I guess white male spaces just tend to be supermajority conservative but it’s probably not great that to the extent politics gets discussed it’ll be something on the spectrum from property taxes to straight up the turner diaries
My dad was a bodybuilder and owned a popular gym in 80s and 90s. Very guido, masculine, etc. If one thing could distill his character, it’s this: one day a member of his gym came to him complaining that another member was gay, and he didn’t want to share a locker room with a blah blah blah
So my dad immediately kicked out and banned the complainer. Who was he to try and get another member who did nothing wrong kicked out of the gym? And this was in the late 80s in a very blue collar city.
That’s always been my model of masculinity.
Coaching my kids in Little League. Taking them to Mets/Islanders games. Going to see “dude-coded” bands like the Hold Steady. Making cocktail mixology a hobby. Yeah, none of this stuff that I enjoy is remotely like listening to Joe Rogan.
"Dudes rock" is how we defeat the manosphere. It's how we show men that they can be their authentic selves and the world won't beat them down for it. They don't have to be cynical manipulators to be loved.
Also just embracing being earnest and enjoying simple things. Like digging ditches on a beach- dudes of all ages enjoy it, and do it despite it all being washed away by the end of the day.
I don't know who or what experiences specifically taught it to me but very early on I learned that anyone can be a dude, and anything you want to do can rock.
