Will Oremus: it’s wild how much of the left’s anger on this site is devoted to the NYT. media criticism is good and healthy but anyone who really thinks a newspaper that’s read mostly by coastal elites is the main obstacle to progressive policy goals in america in the year 2024 is living in a bubble

it’s wild how much of the left’s anger on this site is devoted to the NYT. media criticism is good and healthy but anyone who really thinks a newspaper that’s read mostly by coastal elites is the main obstacle to progressive policy goals in america in the year 2024 is living in a bubble

if you’re criticizing the NYT (or WaPo, or whoever) because you want and expect them to be better, more power to you. when they publish bad takes or op-eds, by all means call out the flaws. but a newspaper is never gonna be the ideal political ally. it’s not their mission. it’s not what they’re for.

and anyone who thinks that if the NYT or [insert MSM outlet of choice] would just stop publishing stuff that makes them mad then the country would be saved and its deep problems resolved in the left’s favor is kidding themselves.

I don't think it would save the country, but I do think it would help my trans students keep their parents from being radicalized.

fair

The more generalized point, I think, is that the NYT has very limited influence on the median voter or the average Republican or whatever else. But I do think powerful liberals read it.

yes

which makes it significantly more dangerous.

You truly underestimate what a piece of media that has a "reputable" reputation can do to influence people. NYT is being used to craft laws that are literally killing the trans community. The vast majority are media illiterate and just read NYT or a select few. That's a lot of influence

It's not about living in a bubble nor just publishing stuff to get mad. They have blood in their hands while being The place to look at what's happening. And right now what's happening is the death and violence against trans people

If you can't understand this, stop and listen. We are fucking dying because of this

We get it. You’re our masters and you shouldn’t be questioned. All hail the Washington post oh wise will our savior and truth bringer

people should absolutely question and criticize the mainstream media, but if they want it to have a positive impact it helps to have a theory of change and some perspective on the broader information ecosystem

You’re right we’re all just too stupid to understand how the media imbalance is Good Actually.

Maybe they could start with not being frothing at the mouth and dedicating all their resources to getting Trump reelected

Fox News isn’t being cited in court decisions and legislatures when taking away the rights of trans people

Rude

Labeled by Bluesky Moderation Service

Nobody thinks any of these things.

a quick spin through my mentions says otherwise

Because you purposefully ignore the salient points that trans people make

Nothing about this thread suggests any real interest in understanding or engaging with the core progressive media critiques of the last few decades, but if that ever changes you know where to find me, or plenty of others if you prefer.

If that’s what you’re taking away from the media criticism, maybe you should try reading it again because, nobody thinks that.

yeah this sounds really concerning, but just to be sure we’re not being dishonest dipshits, could you identify at least one person saying “the [NYT is the] main obstacle to progressive policy goals in america” or “if the NYT stopped publishing bad stuff the country would be saved”?

I hope your king bezos sees this

You misunderstand the problem. These papers and so many other journalistic outlets have become weaponized against the marginalized. Instead of using their reach to hold all in power to account, they are attacking the most vulnerable among us. We want them to stop being our enemies.

what is your point

Do you think the existence of Fox News has been beneficial or a hindrance for the right since it's founding in 1996?

You really think the problem trans people have is that the article “made them mad”? Jesus fuckin christ

fwiw my thread wasn’t about any given article, and it wasn’t a criticism of trans people. trans rights are human rights and it makes sense to be furious at anyone who argues otherwise. my thread was about the outsize role the nyt plays as a political boogeyman among parts of the very online left.

I want them to not print lies in the newspaper

👍 everyone should want this

You should demand that your paper not print lies about the trans community then, to start off with.

Cool, but most people aren't in a position to change this. That's why they get mad at people that could, but decide not to do anything about it. It's not that difficult.

Then why aren't you resigning from the Washington Post?

I would love to live in an America with a media ecosystem diverse and vibrant enough that I didn't have to give a single shit about what the NYT was up to, but alas all I've got is this one.

Beyond lies, I also take issue with irresponsible speculation (like that Times article insinuating Biden has Parkinson’s without any hard evidence).

Glad to know that "relentlessly targeting a severely marginalized group of people with bad-faith arguments for those people to have their basic human rights revoked" is just not "being the ideal political ally". Sure isn't fucking infuriating and soul crushing as a member of that minority group.

❤️ my post truly isn’t meant to defend a certain columnist’s stance on trans rights, for whatever that’s worth. or to say people shouldn’t be mad about that.

The owners are trying to enable a fucking genocide of trans people for profit. Individual columnist have nothing to do with it

It's not one columnist. It's a significant and visible tilting of the scales, a visible lack of actual voices of the people being discussed, and thinking Biden's age is more newsworthy than Trump being a criminal or Project 2025. I can see it from Canada.

Look— not only does your paper manipulate facts and framing to argue trans people don’t deserve rights like appropriate medical care, it also happens that the “coastal elites” it caters to have the power to take away those very same rights. Please don’t play coy about this.

Understood. But why do they have to make themselves my enemy this way?

if i was a 72 year old coastal libertarian i would regard them as my ideal political ally. i wonder why that is

the nyt stands accused of a lot of things on here but “libertarian” is not one i see often

i don’t mean libertarian like anarcho capitalist, just classical liberals

How bout if they’re trying to get my kid murdered and I really don’t give a damn a lot one guys opinion page.

It’s comical that people think you’ll be changed by one guys sometimes good op-eds instead of the 99.9999% absolute heinous transphobic, racist, rightwing coverage of said paper. Real smart stuff here.

They are not supposed to spread outright lies and bigotry. This isn’t fucking complicated

What are they there for? And they have moved FAR beyond an “ideal political ally” to a full blown arm of the Trump election campaign.

This has been polled and regular readers of newspapers are among the most likely folks to support Biden pre-debate — www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcn...

Poll: Biden and Trump supporters sharply divided by the media they consumewww.nbcnews.com Those who don’t follow political news feel more positively about Donald Trump and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and more negatively about Joe Biden.

Yeah. Mother Jones never represented labor.