I’ve read this interview twice and I’m utterly confounded.
It’s with a conservative pro-marriage advocate, discussing ways to get more people to marry.
First of all, *why* is would it be good for more people to get married? He never says and is not asked.
www.nytimes.com/2024/02/26/o...
His argument has a few parts. One is that people expect too much from marriage. And he has a point, many scholars (Eli Finkel, et al) say that with the decline of other social connections we rely too much on our spouses and it creates strain.
But the scholars then suggest we improve our marriages by creating other social connections. This guy says we need to just lower our expectations and suck it up.
He agrees that the primary problem is young men: that they are neither economically or psychologically secure enough to marry and start a family. His solution: all male schools, and better “stories” and “historical subjects” taught to them.
The weirdest part is this: the “inverted hypocrites.” He concedes that some Republicans “behave badly when it comes to marriage.” But then he goes on longer about the “elites” who actually have wonderful, stable model marriages but put forward a “anti-nuptial message” to the public.
So, yes, we’ve got GOP pols who preach marriage but are cheating, sexting, groping, divorcing, but we’ve also got elites who succeed at marriage but… tell people they can do what they like? Not have children? Have sex even if not married? Seek their own vision of happiness? What?
Part of my interest here is that he is not overtly judgmental or religious. He doesn’t rail against the gays or the sluts. He is sympathetic to the real difficulties of marriage.
But I was in a failed marriage with kids. It was awful for all of us and I wouldn’t wish that on anyway.
But of all the reasons I got into that marriage and stayed in it as long as I did was that I had internalized exactly this message: you’re supposed to get married, marriage is hard work, being actually happy is too much to ask, etc.
And I’m a man. Think about what this view has done to women.
I have a wonderful marriage now and can assure you that it is possible!
But with fear of being a “reverse hypocrite,” still: please, do what you want with the people you want to do it with.
Hi Peter, I appreciate this thread and you. Would it be possible to add alt text on the images next time. Unfortunately Bluesky doesn’t let you go back and edit them after posting.
Agreed. Upping the social pressure might create more marriages but it won't create good ones. Good marriages are the result of people freely choosing each other, not being forced into it by the elimination of all other options.
I heard a relationship therapist say once that most cishet men are astonished when they’re asked for divorce because they think that wives are supposed to be unhappy so they don’t take complaints seriously. 🤷🏻♀️ this guy clearly isn’t helping with his lower your standards bullshit.
I give him credit for acknowledging the percieved "marriage penalties" for lower income couples. He sees the problem is "men" but his solutions are shaky at best.
He’s not overly judgemental or religious *in this article*. He’s not railing against gays or sluts *in this article*. This is one of those times the rabid right wing puts a palatable face on their real views. “Pro-marriage” means they want women controlled, and they want queers closeted or dead.
oh yes and I almost forgot: these guys are almost always white supremacists. They want white women married to conservative white men and pumping out as many babies as possible, for whatever upcoming race war they like to fantasize about. Thats why they focus on young white conservative men.
No one can really say why marriage and the only way to argue for it is to ignore how awful it often is.
I have done it
And stopped it
And eight years on I am very comfortable with never doing it again
As is the person I hang with
We all know conservatives want everyone to live the way they decide is "right": be straight, and married, and have white babies. The idea that people are free to find their own path to fulfillment and success is anathema to them.
It still seems weird to me that US evangelicals are obsessed with things Jesus never talked about (homosexuality and abortion), but completely ignore his VERY clear instructions regarding divorce.
Inverted hypocrites = men who managed to get their women under control but won’t help Rs with theirs lol.
Never even occurs to him that being okay with personal freedom helps with the ladies.
Seems like this is part of it. He's big mad because there's so many happy liberal couples who don't see their interests as aligned with his. Who do they think they are, stealing marriage from conservatives without becoming conservatives!?
It's like he thinks his side owns marriage or something. Or that liberals are cheating by taking marriage a la carte; yes to romantic pair-bonding, no to inhumane gender roles and reactionary social values.
I think it's time to simply ignore any "thinker" whose leading edge is to cast themselves against "the elites". I don't believe there's going to be a market for that stuff soon, it's stale and no one needs a guru to tell them to not trust gurus.
IMO, the only way these fascists can win elections is by portraying themselves as The Christian Party™️.
But since they aren’t *actually* good Christians, they have to pretend by repeating pro-life, pro-marriage, pro-family propaganda.
They also need to lie about liberals being immoral atheists.
...that is truly jaw-dropping
I guess the idea that marriage by *choice* can go a whole lot better than marriage by obligation or social convention is not on this guy's radar
The damage from having their representatives' rank hypocrisy put on display is really setting in, and this subgenre of article is just conservative thinkers trying to make sense of it.
I feel like this is the second or third time in the past few weeks that I've heard some conservative politician or talking head making an argument of the form "you're a hypocrite if you live a certain way but will not denigrate others for failing to make similar choices."
I think they're crossing the threshold from "it's okay to mistreat others for being different from yourself" to "actually you're a hypocrite if you don't." It's a weird sort of doubling down.
this bit about leftists having stronger, more respectful marriages despite advocating for "immorality" in public is such a great "almost got it" moment
Yeah, those of us who actually study relationships and what works for happy, long-term successful partnerships are sitting back going "any time you want to know more about this 'puzzling paradox,' come ask..." (but we're libs and queers and feminists so w/e).
