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I'll frankly admit I have been bullied into accepting a Harris swap just to stop this discourse. fuck it

It would be an incredibly risky thing to do with no guaranteed upside but pundits need to justify their existence somehow and apparently writing articles about how Trump is going to make himself dictator has been ruled out by their editors

this is what has convinced me. even lib pundits (and a whole bunch of leftists) simply can't stop themselves from arguing about this shit 24/7, and I see no sign they are going to stop ever

Nobody knows how incumbency advantage *really* works, but it's very possible you'd be giving it up with a move like that. And given Trump was president once already, it might go to him

People are just being way too flippant about this idea overall. It's especially maddening given that we have exactly zero hard evidence that the race has changed. Just a bunch of freaking out

All in all, not a fan of doing something wholly unprecedented in the history of American presidential politics because a bunch of smart boys with anxiety disorders decided it was our only choice 30 minutes into a debate in *June*

Involuntary commitment for 72 hours of observation for all liberal pundits and operatives, for the good of the Republic

I think the freaking out has changed the race.

That's something we can also wait on some polls for. Unclear to me how much any of this changes the calculus for your typical voter.

Yes and it is fucking MADDENING

The freaking out has been worse for Biden than the initial problem.

I'm having a hard time understanding how legit the freak out is. I know anecdotal is useless, but in all honestly, I've yet to find a single person in my orbit who is freaking out. I just read about people freaking out.

The thing is it's not showing up in polls anywhere.

I’m not so certain. The median American voter has voted against Trump twice and now he’s got a felony. Meanwhile, everyone has been screaming about how old Biden is for years. I just don’t see how a debate that makes him look old moves the needle. We know who these guys are already.

i think it probably has too but i think the debate may have changed the race by hardening opinions some as well

It has; the Times’ coverage can’t win you an election but it can certainly lose you one

I’m just so tired of worrying about whether Joe can keep it together. I couldn’t say how it would actually affect the race but it would be nice to have a candidate I can have more confidence in.

Also there is not zero evidence: www.politico.com/news/2024/07... More evidence will come out as the situation develops.

2 new post-debate polls have bad news for Bidenwww.politico.com Biden's campaign counters that other polls found the president tied or ahead after the debate.

Exactly! So annoyed that the freakers didn’t think this through.

Which was why cooler heads were telling people to stop freaking out.

I think the freaking out has lowered the bar. Trump would have had to soil himself to lose the 1st one because no one expects coherence from him. On the other hand, Biden's path to victory next time is "having a normal one." Pretty sure this was even a West Wing subplot at one point.

The Biden camp could have staunched the bleeding by having him do a few press conferences, taking questions, etc and they didn't. People are rightfully concerned because you don't recover from dementia. It just gets worse.

Yes! I thought it would be a couple days of hand wringing, then back to business as usual.

The freaking out plus Biden as a candidate proving the point by being seemingly unable to assuage any fears.

Sad to have to like that post.

I'd like to see polls 2 weeks out from the debate before we decide on that.

I was not a Biden should drop out person given his performance immediately following the debate and the rally the next day, but find it concerning that he hasn’t gotten out there for more events and has not shored up support with calls to congressional Dems in the ensuing days.

The tell for me is that Harris or any other candidate are going to have downsides that are seemingly hand waved away by the Biden Replacers - sure let’s talk about replacing Biden but nobody making that case acts like there is any potential downside!

The talk of replacing Biden at this point is stupid for a variety of reasons, and the people making the point that he should drop out and be replaced should be called stupid.

People who love dressing up messy gossip as hard hitting political news would love it. I'd hardly say that makes it a good choice for the party or the country.

Yes, this is driven by people who need drama to get clicks- there is no move that can placate them to stop rocking the boat because they want the boat to be rocking

The race hasn’t changed; they’ve been trying to make this happen for months.

Way too flippant. It is not even clear what the ballot situation would be. www.notus.org/2024-electio...

Inside the GOP Effort to Make Sure Biden Is the Democratic Nomineewww.notus.org “We would make it extraordinarily difficult” for Democrats to replace Joe Biden on the ballot, a Heritage Foundation leader told NOTUS.

And if it does change now they have no idea how much of that change was DRIVEN by the freak out, instead of the event.

kind of side note to this. supposing for the sake of argument that the best bet is harris. an obvious question that will be raised: if joe can’t finish the campaign then why is he still president?

The main reason I don’t think it will happen is precisely that Biden may step aside from the campaign but he absolutely will not step down from the White House.

Plusbas someone noted, if Harris becomes president, dems lose tiebreaker in Senate No way House approves a new VP

“What’s the worst that could happen between now and November,” Biden says, tempting the federal stockpile of monkey’s paws to move on their own

It's not difficult either. "After talking with my family, I don't feel I can give another 4 years at my best service to the country" and say he's finishing his term but VP Harris will run in his place while he focuses on running the country for the rest of his term.

If he steps down from office I think we lose tie breaking vote in senate?