If the president tells federal workers to illegally imprison me and hands them all presidential pardons, they're all safe from prosecution but in theory maybe a judge can get me out eventually. Somehow. If I can even talk to a lawyer.
But if the president instead tells federal workers to kill me...
Tagging @steveinskeep.bsky.social here because he apparently hadn't considered any of this prior to interviewing Trump's lawyer about the immunity case.
Sure, some politicians think it looks bad to have the courts mess with them over and over. But trump has learned that you can bulldoze over norms to do what you want.
When I was in law school, my conlaw prof told us this was the obvious implication of giving Gitmo detainees (some) due process but also not holding the Bush admin guys accountable. It led directly to the drone strike regime since that conveniently took care of anyone who might assert their rights.
I still remember in the weeks after 9/11 the US bombed some people in Somalia, reportedly way out isolated on a road far from anywhere. It was the first time I'd heard of random people out in the world being targeted for airstrike, in a situation where one could imagine helicoptering in troops.
Obviously it wasn't the first airstrike I'd ever heard of, not even an anti-terrorism airstrike (maybe the missile strikes after the USS Cole bombing?), but it was the first indication that bombs would be seen as a substitute for handcuffs, based on uncertain identification. Long before Gitmo.
I still can't get over the willful lack of imagination required to think this ruling isn't effectively a blank check. As I keep saying, too many people are worried about norms while the right has been playing for keeps.
“in theory maybe a judge can get me out eventually. Somehow.”
People in Iran, China, and Russia have put that theory to the test many times and found it wanting.
Judges have absolutely ordered the government to bring back people who were improperly deported.
I don't think it's commonplace (I know it happened because I vaguely remember a case or two that made the national news, suggesting it's unusual) but a judge can do it. Unless that changes, of course.
Couldn't an executive just grant a pardon, as all the cases would be federal? Once you are outside the US, it's all federal, and immigration control falls squarely under official duties.
Everyone doing illegal shit to the person being deported can be protected from consequences. More illegal shit can be done to them, also without consequence.
I was just saying that illegal deportations *have* been reversed after the fact by judges, it's possible. Eventually. Expensively. Painfully.
Can a president just order INS to deport whomever to wherever? Who would stop him? The conscience of the agent? What about the next in line when the disloyal agent gets disappeared?
even if you talk to a lawyer and the judge orders you released, the president can just... direct the officers to ignore the court's order (and hand pardons)
