Elad Nehorai: Yep. One of the biggest blind spots people have is assuming that underneath, others share the same basic values as them. They have trouble imagining an ideology that is completely misaligned with theirs.

Yep. One of the biggest blind spots people have is assuming that underneath, others share the same basic values as them. They have trouble imagining an ideology that is completely misaligned with theirs.

When free speech absolutists demand that we must let Nazis speak this is what I intend to share with them moving forward.

The response is usually you only want to shut down speech that you don't agree with. The entire planet fought a war that killed upwards of 80 million people in opposition to this speech. I think that jury came in.

Yep, some ideologies are universally recognized as wrong and evil, what's up for debate?!

First Amendment rights for Nazis. It's an issue in America.

The ACLU once famously defended a group of Nazis who wanted to hold a march, because free speech.

More than once. And it's gotten people killed.

What could a Nazi possibly say that would in any way be something that could lead to bettering the world we all have to live in? The fact that the ACLU does this doesn't make me sing their praises, it makes me marvel at their desire for self destruction.

Successfully, in Skokie, IL, where the Nazis wanted to hold the march (and indeed did) because the city had a high percentage of Holocaust survivors among its population.

Legally, we have to let them speak. But nothing requires us to listen. Nothing requires us to invite them up onto our stages. Nothing requires us to give them column-inches in our editorial pages.

Do we though? Free speach laws are often misunderstood. They are mostly just about the individuals right to not be punished by the state for something they say. They NEVER promise that all voices should get access to all ears and spaces.

The only thing that requires us to let them speak is a law. If we can't make an exception to that law in the face of our destruction, then we deserve to be damned.

Last sentence reminds me of something Hannah Arendt wrote that I MUST find again: that totalitarianism can only be *fully* understood by autopsy, and that those who aren't mobilized by what is already known won't be when even more is known. (obviously NOT how she put it, she did put it well).

I'd say it's more mass personality disorder than any real ideological content. That is, the content (paid lip service to, it's ALWAYS lip service) can wildly vary and turn around on a dime, if need be, without the underlying nature of it changing.

Consider how many streams the alt-right consists of! How it reaches into all sorts of subcultures. I bet you there's an alt-right section, of, say, alien believers. Just like there's fellow travellers in all major and minor religions. And they can fuse quicker than the left can stop to bicker.

The perpetrator of the greatest attempt to date ultimately died because the greater world powers did not respect fascism as rulership.

Yep. The only principle a fascist has is power. Seeking it, wielding it, and if they can't do those two, worshiping those who do. That's it. That's *ALL*. All others are a distant second at best, and most often fig leafs. And often, THEY can't conceive of anyone having principles OTHER than that

Yea, they are sadists. The moral things we care about like fairness and alleviating suffering do not move them.

Yup. Inhumanity (not being internally motivated to behave humanely) seems alien to humane people But we can’t shame the shameless We can’t guilt the remorseless And we can’t plead for empathy from those who lack it We can only force the inhumane to behave humanly

Attended a 'debate' between 2 experts. Turned out both excellent scholars nearly agreed on every nuance in their shared field. After, they were asked about their political views. One talked nonsense for 5 minutes, the other noted he had opposite views on everything.

I think this is something that being Jewish in a Christian country helps with. You learn pretty quickly that a lot of people think differently than you.

It took me decades to realize this

I tell people the reason fascism is not just another form of politics is that its core tenet is there should BE no "politics." It is to politics as cancer is to the body, usually getting power by hijacking the legitimate functions of democracy to bad intents.

"Politics" means, discussion, disagreement(and agreement), votes, dissent, protest, the idea that other views have as much right to power. Fascism believes none of that. It simply shoots you if you don't do it.

And fascism always wins because of some flaw in the structure that the structure could not do without.

So when you say "fascism" you're not describing a political view as much as a state of political morbidity. Fascism is terminal.

Manwë and Melkor what

My empathy hits a short circuit point every time I think about how proudly shameless and selfish the right really is. I want to understand, but literally can't, because in no way does their behavior or ideas match healthy human psychology. Its like staring into the soul of a monster

No, fascism arises when a population senses the way to remedy chaos or aggrievement is a "strong hand." It never works but that's how it starts. No ordinary citizen WANTS fascism and its consequences. But the final step seems like the best, possibly drastic, option.

Uh, no, many people want fascism

This website has so many "well, actually" people who rely on a high school recall of history. "Actually, people didn't really want fascism in Germany" is such a funny-sad thing to say.

No they really don't. They cope with it when it turns out to be what they get.

What they want is a solution to real problems, but after a while they stop caring what they need to do, look at the opiod controversy, chronic pain suffers are literally being told by the government that they just addicts who need to be fixed or should die. not medical treatment for pain.

at some point there are people desperate enough to steal or use illegal substances. Some will commit violence to get medical attention.

This doesn't make it right but it's the same logic. Nazi Germany arose out of real problems faced by post WW1 Germany due to the oppressive policies of the Winners on a country that didn't even start it. The victors took the land the country needed to be self sufficient. Ruined the Economy too.

Yes they want "order" not "chaos." Or "despair." That's how the "strong hand" emerges, and it is never more than a temporary solution for a limited number of people. For everyone else it's disaster. Fascism arises from people who want drastic change, but don't know what they're getting into.

I have literally met people who self-identify as fascist. Some people believe that it’s better. Here’s a member of the Christian right saying “America is going to need a Protestant Franco.” That’s not coping. It’s looking at fascism and saying “sounds great!” amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/d...

Why is the US far right finding its savior in Spanish dictator Francisco Franco? | The far right | The Guardianamp.theguardian.com The military general led a nationalist revolt against Spain’s democratic republic from 1936-1939, executing 150,000 of his opponents

Let me rephrase that then. The *vast* majority of people who get themselves into fascism do not like it when they get there and understand what has just happened, and how what was recently under their control is no longer. Your fascist acquaintances would not like actual fascism.

They think they are getting into a regime that gives them more power. In reality it gives them none.

bzzzt wrongo

We got the ordinary whisperer

Jim Crow was wildly popular in the South amongst one particular demographic

Yes but racism is not fascism

How do you think that racism was enforced, exactly

By the exercise of ordinary, existing law, by ordinary racists.

Are you under the impression that the Jim Crow South was a democracy

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