I'd be shocked if data came back showing a new desire for Biden to step down is a top down phenomenon. Every relatively normal (non political junkie) Dem I talk to, every one, thinks the debate showed Biden needs to step aside. NY Times coverage is annoying, but the debate created this.
If you think all the people who changed their mind on the wisdom of a Biden candidacy are consuming NY Times coverage first or second hand, I fear you are deluding yourself.
Has anyone touched grass and talked to any normie who wasn't alarmed by the debate? Anyone? I haven't. If anything, it's the "need to stick with Biden no matter what" that is a creation of high media consumption people.
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I'm in WI. Normie MIL watched the debate. She was sooo cringey over Trump that she didn't even remark on Biden - and she turned it off early, by her own account.
Normies I know are panicked over potential Trump reelection. The debate reminded them how bad everything was when he was president.
I wonder if it's a regional/geographic thing, or a gender thing? I'm in a swing/super-swing state. Women (and/or persons of color) feel the impact of a Trump presidency more acutely. (Dobbs, etc.)
I didn't watch the debate because the idea of watching it was absurd in the first place. I'm aware of Biden's performance and it doesn't really change much. Show me another candidate that has a viable path to victory in the general election and we can talk.
I’m just blown away that you would openly admit you refuse to look at the evidence, but are confident it’s not as bad as people who have looked at it say it is.
I live in a very blue city. My experience is not normal. Almost every person I’ve talked to hates Trump and is voting for Biden. Three people at work watched the debate. All of them are voting for Biden. One person at work voted for Biden in 2020 and is voting for Trump in 2024. He did not watch.
Talked to many normies in my bluest state, 2 watched. I didn't, I knew 1 candidate was going to lie & shout & the other one might stutter and look old.If you're >24yo living in the US, what would u learn from the debate u didn't already know?(my two >18, <24yo kids didn't watch either)
lol thank you I’m aware. I’ve been in rural NH for two weeks with family and old friends who have all told me they see the chattering class and their call to keep Biden in as condescending.
The normies I know would not have watched the debate. Even the more politically engaged people I know didn't watch the debate. My normies have always thought biden is too old but they hate trump & have a gut appreciation for the existential threat he presents. They're voting democrat.
What’s alarming to me is the political junkies, like yourself, acting like you don’t know any better. The primaries are over. The convention is right around the corner. Act like you know politics and stop trying to offer a delusional alternative.
Nice straw man.
There’s a difference between saying Trump “won” the debate and a constant drum beat for Biden to resign.
A jury found that Trump raped E Jean Carroll. Was that a weeklong story with demands for Trump to step aside? How about 34 felony convictions?
Of course Trump should resign. Anyone with a brain and/or a heart has been calling for that since day 1 of Trump’s first term. He should be in prison.
His cultish supporters refuse to admit there’s anything wrong with him.
Are we like them?
Plus lots of elected Democrats airing concerns and leaks from the WH and campaign on a level we haven’t seen before (in this administration). I mean, Mark Warner is not exactly some ideologue who sees this as a chance to relitigate the 2016 primary.
Hunh, definitely makes me stop and think a lot. My impression of talking to non-junkies had been they were freaked out in large part because of headlines they saw in passing. So they were aware of the tsunami of coverage even if they hadn’t read it, and that was playing a big role.
it was very surreal sitting reading the uk press immediately following the debate where it was wall to wall front page news that the president visibly seemed unwell, only to log onto bluesky and be told how it was a storm in a teacup, or how no one watched the debate
no i think they were real users and sincere, it didn't feel like manufacturered consent or anything so much as trying desperately to assert a narrative almost as a self soothing mechanism?
i don't think they thought they were fooling other people, but maybe i'm misreading it.
Take this for what you will, but while the elite commentariat is melting down about biden literally the only thing I've heard about the debate in the real world is people at the bar making fun of trump's "black jobs" line
What’s more shocking is that these media outlets, who should know better, are pretending to be clueless about how American politics work. They present nonsensical alternatives that have no basis in reality, confusing the public about what can actually be done.
And every normal (no qualifier) Dem I talked to were more horrified by Trump and the lack of reporting about his lunacy. The general thought was we need to stay the course. The coverage has become almost harpy like. I think people are tuning out. And many weren’t listening or watching anyway.
Have been traveling and have had same experience. Normie family members say either 1) don’t care, I’m voting against DT or 2) they need to do something and then want to talk about the alternatives. Selection bias of course but was very surprised.
