Max Kennerly: I'm sorry, but if you call yourself a "moderate" or "conservative" while also advocating for "major changes" or to "tear down the system," then you're not any of those things, you're just an angry reactionary dimwit who doesn't even know what words mean. www.nytimes.com/2024/05/13/u...

I'm sorry, but if you call yourself a "moderate" or "conservative" while also advocating for "major changes" or to "tear down the system," then you're not any of those things, you're just an angry reactionary dimwit who doesn't even know what words mean. www.nytimes.com/2024/05/13/u...

I’ve noticed that the most extreme beliefs seem to come from self-described independents and moderates. I can’t tell if they really believe theirs is a moderate political ideology or if they’re being deliberately misleading to convince unsuspecting voters that theirs is the moderate position

What usually happens is that people start to think they don't have any political ideology at all they are just objectively correct about things. And that means they see anyone who disagrees as a monster.

To me the idea that it is possible to be entirely neutral and objective and non ideological is a right wing position in itself.

Especially common in STEM spaces in my experience.

the straightforward explanation is that those people are ignorant of politics, and self-describe as independent or moderate because they can't articulate who their political allies would be

Their profiles almost invariably have “America First” or “MAGA” in them. Many use dog whistles for bigoted viewpoints (western civ, traditional values), and some just come out and say that they’re a nationalist while still claiming to be a moderate (head scratcher, to be sure)

I think to people sympathetic to Nazis in their mind being pro deportation instead of genocide makes them "moderate"

“Moderate” or “centrist” is a normative label: they’re positioning themselves as the imagined normal, so as the political poles shift further apart (or society just changes around them) it’s much easier to descend into being a reactionary.

There might be a handful of people (Yglesias types) who have this magical belief that the “centermost” position is always right and always try to find it, but for the most part I think people just like being centrists because it feels normal to them.

Yes! The “just asking questions” lot like Matt Y, Bari Weiss, Matt Taibbi, etc…

I actually shuddered reading that accursed list.

My favourite (bad) pollster joke: A pollster goes into a bar and interviews a communist and a neo-nazi. They average the results and walk out, having recorded "two independent moderates" in their tally.

Lmao

prob a mixture of both

I think it's possible to think the only thing that'll fix it is burning the whole thing down and salting the earth while recognizing that never goes well and reluctantly working within the system.

Part of it is bad poli sci. Poli sci used to do left-right ideology like a number line. Left was the smaller numbers, right were the larger numbers. “Average” somebody with extreme left & right beliefs & bingo, you get a “moderate.”

What has also happened w/ the rise of Steve Bannon & QAnon is that conspiracists whose beliefs were a left-right mishmash & are now viewing the right-wing part of their identity as more salient.

No one who's truly "very liberal" would vote for Trump in a million years.

“What do you think needs tearing down?” “Well I’m sick of welfare queens.” “I see…”

"Our polls are conducted by telephone, using live interviewers, in both English and Spanish. Nearly 95 percent of respondents were contacted on a cellphone for this poll." So basically a poll of people who accidentally erased their phone contacts and are in 'who dis' mode until they recover them.

Seriously: "For this set of polls, we placed nearly 500,000 calls to about 410,000 voters." 1% of the people you tried to reach actually picked up the phone but obviously there's nothing about that 1% that differentiates them from the other 99% in a way that might impact their presidential choices.

I feel confident in believing that Biden leads in people smart enough to not pick up an unknown number on their cell phones.

Yeah, if anything I'm surprised Trump doesn't have more of a lead among that special 1% who do pick up.

"We polled 1000 people who couldn't program the clock on their VCR and the results will surprise you"

Didn't we already learn in 2020 and 2016 that these "moderate conservatives" are just lying? They want everything he does they just pretend not to, just like how they all agreed to pretend not to be rock hard thinking about criminalizing abortion until they're voted in?

I've been grinding this ax for YEARS. All our actual conservatives are in the centrist wing of the Democratic Party. Our "conservatives" are reactionary radicals.

I'm fairly certain that conservative actually means "angry reactionary dimwit" now.

FWIW I've been banging this drum for a year or so now, and it never seems to do any good. Yes, the people who call themselves "conservative" (in the US) are anything but. They're reactionary, revanchist, etc. The actual conservatives are "liberals" who put order and continuity and decorum first.

How about someone who supports a return to the 1866 practice of having one SCOTUS seat per Circuit?

I also wonder how many people these days just straight up lie on purpose in polls. They have such a hard time finding people who will even take the poll that it makes me wonder if at least some of those who take it are not trying to fuck it up on purpose.

only elitist snobs care about the meaning of words

The Trump phenomenon from 2016 to now is best explained not by words like "liberal" or "conservative", but "angry."

'Major change' like remove the influence of money in our political system? I think they mean very much like the exact opposite though they wouldn't admit it.

Moderate democrat means everyone who doesn’t have your opinion is an extremist, regardless of your opinion (usually conservative unless personally affected). Conservative democrat means you are a republican in a place that is tactically advantageous to be a democrat

There’s a song about that. youtu.be/em9zYDCyOeE?...

State of the Union (2002 Remaster)youtu.be Provided to YouTube by Rhino State of the Union (2002 Remaster) · Chicago Chicago V ℗ 1972 Rhino Entertainment Company, a Warner Music Group Company. Drums, Percussion: Danny Seraphine Brass Arranger: James Pankow Percussion, Trombone: James Pankow Producer: James William Guercio Percussion, Trumpet, Vocals: Lee Loughnane Bass Guitar: Peter Cetera Lead Vocals: Peter Cetera Keyboards, Vocals: Robert Lamm Guitar, Vocals: Terry Kath Percussion, Woodwinds: Walter Parazaider Unknown: Wayne Tarnowski Writer: Robert Lamm Auto-generated by YouTube.

lol your beef is with the NYT

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