Micah: there are a lot of people whose response to anything illegal immigration-related is "just come here legally" and when you try to explain how the legal immigration system actually works they simply don't believe how tremendously awful it actually is

there are a lot of people whose response to anything illegal immigration-related is "just come here legally" and when you try to explain how the legal immigration system actually works they simply don't believe how tremendously awful it actually is

Here’s a nice simple guide to the US immigration process. Easy peasy

love to write a letter to the government explaining that yes, my friend and his wife actually love each other

Even something you would think would be a total no-brainer, like bringing your legal spouse to the US, is a nightmare.

Ah yes. When my now wife who I met in college while she studied here on a student visa had to go back to her home country and wait for a year so I could get permission from the government to sponsor her for a visa, meanwhile printing out phone bills, letters, emails, photos.

In Canada it's similar. If anyone wants to defraud the Canadian immigration system and pretend to be married for citizenship, I'd do it out of spite.

Luckily for me at the time there was a visa waiver program that allowed me to just travel to the US as a tourist and change my status here. It actually mentioned that in small print on the back of the visa card itself. Something they didn't tell you at the embassy of course...

Isn't the whole "you can't upload anything; you have to print it out" in 2024 just amazing?

I mean the sad thing is this was 2010 but no, it hasn’t changed any in the past 14 years. The most bizarre part is having to write NONE if someone didn’t have a middle name (instead of leaving it blank), fill it out in black pen, but sign in blue pen, and if you didn’t it could be rejected.

Did you not get the memo? She was supposed to stay and work off the books for criminals while being too terrified to speak up about unsafe and exploitative work practices for fear of deportation. How else can they get the workers they need while driving wages down?

One reason we are not married is that his visa was for work. Lawyers warned us not to”muddy the waters” by giving him spouse status. So he got his green card w/employer sponsorship, and we’ve “lived in sin” for 22 years.

I went through that whole process with 1st spouse. He was Swiss. I don't remember it being too hard a process. The main glitch was getting a sponsor. My dad vouched for him. The interview process went well or easy. Maybe bc we did in NYC. Me getting Swiss citizenship was a way easier process.

It got harder more recently. Not too bad for R, since he was sponsored by his employer and was emigrating from the UK. Worse for his colleagues from Asia.

Yeah, I think maybe the work one might be harder? I'm not surprised about his Asian colleagues. I think it has always been harder for POC coming in.

Yup, I got to write one of those. Happy to do it for them, kind of perplexed and pissed off by the process she had to go through.

(UK) We had to send our soppy love letters in for The Home Office to assess, possibly injuring them with cringing. Not something we expected to be scored on. Horrible process even tho we (as a white couple) were playing on easy mode

my fav part was getting friends to write letters to your govt attesting that no actually he does love his wife

I've written one of those! just absurd

love to write a letter to the government explaining that yes, my friend and his wife actually love each other

theres also the part where you have to promise them that you are not here to seduce a pure sweet american into sex slavery

then theres the bit where you promise you are not a terrorist

would a terrorist lie on such a form? I think not

That question always reminds me of the "Ray, when someone asks you if you're a God, you say YES!" line from Ghostbusters.

My first exposure to this was in Wings (bromeliad trilogy) by Pratchett the year it came out and it took me at least another 5 years to really believe that it was an actual question asked sincerely by immigration and not A Bit

“Oh, shit, got me there. If only that question was not on the form.”

The Oz equivalent asks if you've ever been a member of a terrorist organisation and you have to try and remember whether the boy scouts are currently on that list. It's so they can deport you for lying, not terrorism.

are you currently, or do you intend to practice polygamy? (although I don't really think they're aiming at polycules, I think they mean you can't do fraudulent bigamous marriages, bc consent is good! this is my gloss, not the official position)

I read this under your post about what it's like to work in a radio station

I had to solicit them from friends when I was getting my Canadian PR so it’s not just the states.

Of course the whole process was pretty painless and I could work the whole time, so it’s not like it’s the same or anything.

Also it’s a complete honor to get to say anything nice about you and your wife.

Sooo fun news everyone, the officers actually barely look at those because they don't consider them to have significant evidentiary value, but for some reason they have been deemed an important part of the whole absurd process. Why not.

Yeah, a big chunk of the stress is that there's what should be necessary to prove your case, but then somebody in your chat group/message board gets their whole process screwed up by an improper RFE, and you end up trying to compile excessive levels of evidence. Doing this on i864 now, btw.

Yup, there's no concrete rule for what is "enough", which incentivizes submissions of everything anyone can possibly think of, which in turn wastes everyone's time.

I've written one too!

"Look man, I don't even really know what 'love' means. But one thing I can say is that Derrick and Kiko be fuckin like CONSTANTLY"

Mine was the bit where they tell you not to send video of "marital activity" (don't recall the exact phrasing, but along those lines) as evidence of the relationship because you KNOW that means somebody did

*My* favorite part of my son-in-law's process is that he applied in Germany instead of coming here to PR and applying domestically, and then couldn't visit the United States for three years while they did fuck-all with the application, which lost him a funded PhD position at UCLA.

Quietly losing my mind every time I dig into Civil War era archives because they regularly mention naturalization just happening automatically after 5 years residence 😭

What statute do they cite for this? The Act of July 17, 1862 has a streamlined process for honorably discharged veterans, but it is a 1-paper natz (petition without the declaration). www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Unit...

United States Naturalization Lawswww.familysearch.org The following are some of the major United States Naturalization Laws passed by congress starting in 1790.

I was reading the debates over the 14th amendment and they pretty much say multiple times that it’s 5 years for immigrants before naturalization is an option. But maybe Senators discussing birthright citizenship are unaware of naturalization laws (extremely possible).

5 years residence before you can submit your petition, but that doesn't mean it is automatic. People still needed to do the two rounds of paperwork except in certain cases. This class handout is a good starter summary. / 1 www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/File...

www.familysearch.org

Try finding the historical statute that was in effect at the time of the debate you're reading to get better context. /2 www.loc.gov/collections/...

About this Collection | A Century of Lawmaking for a New Nation: U.S. Congressional Documents and Debates 1774-1875 | Digital Collections | Library of Congresswww.loc.gov Beginning with the Continental Congress in 1774, America's national legislative bodies have kept records of their proceedings. The records of the Continental Congress, the Constitutional Convention, and the United States Congress make up a rich documentary history of the construction of the nation and the development of the federal government and its role in the national life. These documents record American history in the words of those who built our government.

There are some cases of 'blanket' naturalizations (e.g. when a territory becomes a state) and derivative naturalizations (minor children becoming citizens when a parent natzes) but my understanding is, apart from the special cases, for most individuals they had to submit the paperwork. /3

That wasn’t the focus of my research, thanks.

From what I understand based on a few comments this is quite the simplification

oh it absolutely is which is a horrendous indictment in and of itself, because holy shit

1996 immigration reform caused a lot more problems than it sought to solve and its hard not to think it was intentional

clinton can suck my big fat girlcock

careful he might 🤭

It is. I am the easiest possible path - from Canada, marrying a citizen who was born in the states, post-grad degree. With a great job. Even for me it was an enormous effort that this chart simplified beyond belief.

This chart doesn't even touch the insane delays in processing, which also vary widely by type of application, due to the deliberate underfunding of all immigration-related services.

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