One of the worst things about online in the last few years has been the idea of "cringe" and how its been used to crush the ideas of believing in things, wholeheartedness, hope.
Super homophobic and reactionary as a person. But you wouldn’t necessarily know that from reading Dune, which is so hyperpolitical and gives all the different factions a such a crazy mishmash of different ideologies that you can read it lots of ways.
I don't know, even since I first read it as a kid I thought it had some insanely anti-democratic tendencies. The fact it's some feudal system and there's zero discussion of the possibility of any sort of liberal reform anywhere in the books was kind of eyebrow-raising...
Horseshoe theory is that they both are just fantasizing about killing the "bad guys", and creating the alleged utopia was always just a rationalization for that
Pretty sure a lot of leftists have confused like German Romanticist Idealism (the world is driven by ideas, not material forces) with it's normal meaning. Although, I would say that having better ideas is useful when and if the material forces swing back in your direction.
I mean, Seth McFarlane also made The Orville, so there's something a lot more interesting (or a lot more cynical) happening with him. He's very good at making a specific product for specific audiences. What he actually believes, who can say.
I appreciate my dad simply staying center-left his entire life, from the 60’s to today. Doesn’t have an extremist bone in his body but always hated Reagan. A moderate metronome.
We are Indigenous so that might be why, too. They were involved with activism a lot. Mom in education. Dad more with veterans because he was a Vietnam vet.
idk, if i look at music i associate with Gen X (grunge and riot grrrl mostly), there was a lot of caring about important topics in amongst all the slacker shit.
South Park might not have started it, but certainly distilled it into libertarian-flavoured edgy nihilism in a teen-friendly format.
i accept that this is gonna be coloured by being *just* too young to really get into anything except what made it to the mainstream, so i’ll have limits on how i see it, rather than experiencing it at the time.
but i do remember SP’s release and hearing their takes regurgitated unquestioned since.
I think you nailed it with Edgy Nihilism. Remember, the early 2000’s were dominated by the discourse of an illegitimate POTUS and his war. Allotta ppl marched w their hearts on their sleeves. Eventually, ppl got tired of being reminded of shitty the US is, and this edgy nihilism found a home.
Sorry it should read *Eventually people got tired of being told how shitty the US is by high minded earnest people.
I think Nihilism was a response to messenger not the message.
Edgy nihilist art was cool cuz it allowed you to wallow in yr powerlessness yet still oppose the war and other bullshit.
I feel like if we also trace the Joe Rogan universe, including this current crop of comics as philosophers punching down as praxis, it all slots into what you're saying here.
that was addressed in one of the threads above. the big difference is that South Park started in the 90s - so there’s now an entire generation that have grown up with it always on television. i’d argue that’s directly influenced them more than Reagan (within the context of this argument).
Seinfeld might be more responsible. At least I think more people would have looked to it to model behavior / reinforce their own behavior. It has more or less the sane anti-learning / anti-caring themes, if more subdued.
eh, i'm thinking globally. i'm in the UK and Seinfeld wasn't successful here at the time it was broadcast (for a variety of reasons, but mostly scheduling), whereas South Park was an instant hit on one of the terrestrial channels at a fairly accessible time.
I think it's cyclical. Ironic detachment was in vogue with Obama-era hipsters, then Trump killed it and everyone became hyperpolitical. Current doomerism comes from people being burned out by that, which is why these types are still obsessed with politics.
I think fully grasping the eternal vigilance that’s needed to keep these fuckers from fully inflicting their vision on the rest of us can be daunting, but that doesn’t mean it’s not needed.
youtu.be/vfQ9c6IMH78?...
Considering this was from the end of the Bush era and its chorus definitely grew to be seen as cringe.
"We need heroes
Build them
Don't put your fist up
Fill them
Fight with our hopes and our hearts and our hands
We're the architects of our last stand"
I still probably think about this chorus at least weekly. It's a great reminder and personal motivator. It's especially helpful when I'm distraught or irate at news and events large or personal.
The change was earlier than that. There's a joke in the 21 Jump Street movie from 2012 where all the cool kids care about the environment and stuff and harass Channing Tatum for acting detached
