southpaw: Okay, it’s absolute immunity for official acts that are “within [the president’s] exclusive and preclusive authority” and presumptive immunity for all official acts. Corrupting the DOJ — absolute immunity (which boggles my mind). Pressuring Pence — presumptive immunity.

The hour is upon us

Corner Post is first, party-line case judicially extending the statute of limitations for APA challenges out to the heat death of the universe. Barrett writes, Jackson dissents. www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23p...

www.supremecourt.gov

From Jackson’s dissent. I believe the way this works in combination with Loper-Bright is really insidious, but ofc it’s not gonna get the headlines.

2nd up is Netchoice—the judgments are unanimously vacated and sent back. Kagan writes with 6 joiners (though Jackson skips a few parts). Several conservatives pen concurrences in the judgment. www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23p...

www.supremecourt.gov

So Trump will be the last case of the term. We’ll know soon enough, but I’m guessing Roberts wrote it.

Roberts rules for Trump. Absolute immunity for “official acts.” Vacated and remanded. Party line case. Both Sotomayor and Jackson dissent. Fuck this. www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23p...

www.supremecourt.gov

Okay, it’s absolute immunity for official acts that are “within [the president’s] exclusive and preclusive authority” and presumptive immunity for all official acts. Corrupting the DOJ — absolute immunity (which boggles my mind). Pressuring Pence — presumptive immunity.

Sotomayor points out why this distinction between absolute and presumptive immunity that the majority introduces is essentially meaningless.

Presidents: 100% immune if they use letterhead. Probably immune if they don't.

If the president shanks someone in the oval office with a letter opener he just has to shout "official act" and it's legal i guess.

It's "stop resisting!" but for presidents.

so this makes nixon's "it is not illegal if the president does it" defense *correct*? fuck

Huge question. How can a president be impeached now? If the standard is other crimes and misdemeanors?

Impeachment is whatever Congress wants it to be.

Technically yes. But as long as 34 Senators decide he's their guy, then no, they can't.

Yeah but they have to leave some opening to say what a Dem president has done is only presumptively immune and then conclude that the presumption has been overcome so they can be prosecuted unlike the presumption for GOP presidents, which will never be overcome

Same with official and unofficial. And all untethered from any precedent or principled consistency of application.

Meaningless, like the so-called exception for when the mother’s life is in danger.

Is this the one that made her go back to her chambers and cry?

Who decides what's official? Is pressuring pence to overturn his election loss part of his official duties?

It seems that's "official." Jesus.

Also SCOTUS rules that Trump is absolutely immune from prosecution for demanding DOJ pressure the states to change their vote count and threatening to replace the AG. "Trump is absolutely immune from prosecution for the alleged conduct involving his discussions with Justice Department officials."

That. Was. Not. An. Official. Act. The elections are run by the states. Certainly, someone who ran in the election should have no say in changing the counting or certification.

Supreme Court says it was because it was just a threat to order a DOJ investigation. Corrupt purpose doesn’t matter

So if he actually meddled? Asked them to have an "alternative slate of electors" send their votes to DC? That would still be a crime? I guess we'll be hearing more about this, but I'm of a mind that they intend all of that activity to be immune. We'll see.

I believe the chain is this: 1) States run elections to delegate electoral votes to send to Congress 2) Congress does the ACTUAL tally of the EVs 3) That tally is presided over by the Vice Prez 4) The President can therefore "officially" order his VP to override the vote, which is a protected act

Yes, but he was calling state officials, asking them to send alternate slates. It goes back to that point.

'Discussion' should be immune, 'Coercion', 'Pressure', 'Duress', etc. are very different things and should NOT be immune. Scrotus clearly struggling with basic English as well as jurisprudence.

Presumptively immune from further down

I.e. the court must figure it out

So, theoretically let's say, the President threatens to have his followers murder the VP if the VP doesn't fall in line, it's "immune" because it's "official?" This is completely theoretical of course.

So: this confirms that the Articles of Impeachment (2nd impeachment) were too narrow. Telling Pence to reject state electors might have been an official act, but it was an abuse of power.

The call to Raffensperger would also now fall under that "official" act bs, wouldn't it?

It looks like the district court will have to decide, but then I imagine it will get sent up to SCOTUS again to see if the district judge got it right.

Yep, tailored to make a trial this year absolutely impossible no matter how quickly the district court moves

This is probably one of those after judgement appeal type things rather than during the whole process.

the answer will of course be "Republicans"

They do?

The lower court. And then when they inevitably say it was unofficial and Trump inevitably appeals, then SCOTUS will have to make up some bullshit on why overturning an election is actually an official act.

When he could appeal though... likely would be after judgement.

he'll force the issue same as he did with this immunity challenge.

It goes back to the judge to determine what is and is not. Lets hope she starts that right away and doesn't wait like 90 days to do it

The word constitutional is in there...... "within his conclusive and preclusive *constitutional* authority".

They did. His personal election is an official act? While living in public housing, what acts aren’t official?

Oh, so all of a sudden they're worried about undermining the independence of the executive branch?

Ordering the military to do anything up to and including shooting a whole bunch of US citizens? Presumptive immunity.

So Biden can order the Navy SEALs to do the Trump hit now?

No, because SCOUTS will say it's not an official act. If Trump does it, this SCOTUS will say it was official. See how that works? People with SCOTUS friends are immensely powerful now, more than last Monday.

Do the Scotus hits first.

Why not both?

Hit teams have radios, they can coordinate these things. I just like the thought of Trump sitting there waiting for the bullet.

Then perhaps Biden should start with locking up the 6 justices that issued the opinion as they endanger the institutions of democracy and upholding the Constitution is definitely an “official act” of the POTUS. Then go after Trump.

Biden does it themselves, I figure they stay out of prison until they die. Or, get pardoned by the next president.