Asawin Suebsaeng: …the dramatic sweep or bang of a March on Rome, it’s gonna feel a lot more “normal” than that and therefore easier to dismiss by many elite pundits 2) ask an older Black voter if it’s hard to believe that America may no longer be a democracy at some point in its modern history.

I feel the Skepticism you hear from some when they seem utterly baffled that people would actually believe a second Trump term would bring authoritarian and anti democratic backsliding is rooted in, among other things, 1) not realizing that if something like that occurs, it’s not gonna have…

…the dramatic sweep or bang of a March on Rome, it’s gonna feel a lot more “normal” than that and therefore easier to dismiss by many elite pundits 2) ask an older Black voter if it’s hard to believe that America may no longer be a democracy at some point in its modern history.

For most of its history, America hasn’t been a democracy, by any meaningful definition of the term! This isn’t some It Can’t Happen Here shit, in a way, it’s already happened. It just may not have directly affected you.

This right here. Ask marginalized communities that have historically faced oppression under the law if they feel that America is a democracy.

Ask the people of the American territories if they feel that way. Ask the people of Puerto Rico, Guam, or American Samoa if they think that the United States is a democracy.

That’s why America is often described as a flawed democracy as opposed to a full democracy. It’s amazing that most Americans don’t realize this.

Yup. Which doesn't make them unique by any means; I'm Canadian. Our history of genocide against the First Nations is not in the distant past. I'm 30 years old, and I was a walkin' talkin' toddler when the last Residential School closed. Nobody is perfect. But America likes to pretend it is.

Same. I’m from Saskatchewan and had already long graduated from U of S when the last school in Saskatchewan closed in 1996 Pretty much all democracies are flawed in one way or another. Still they are preferable to the alternative. We just need to keep fighting to improve them.

Many Americans say, “it’s not a democracy, it’s a republic” as if that means anything

Yeah I’m still confused by that.

The orgs that do the "Democracy Rankings" things downgraded the US because of legislative polarization causing gridlock, & lack of public trust in elections, institutions & media. Many other countries have scored lower for the same reason. The US is objectively more democratic than it was in 1950.

Sure I agree. And it’s objectively less democratic than the most of the countries listed higher on the index as full democracies. It’s not even close to being as democratic as those places.

They can’t accept that things are not the best here- goes for things like healthcare and public transport as well.

100% As It Is Happening, all the people with power & influence will flatly deny it is happening, and that the problem is the people complaining.

And those same people will go on to claim afterwards that “well you can’t accuse me of being one, everyone was forced to join the party” despite them having turned a blind eye to it the entire time

I have a halfway serious theory that exactly this phenomenon is maybe why our democracy lasted for a couple centuries and is now seemingly failing: for most of that time there were whole classes in society denied their rights, even unto death, and the license to oppress them was a relief valve.

A cliche says antisemitism is the socialism of fools, and I think it might have worked the same way in our nation's history for democracy not socialism, and with a whole range of and whole series of vicious bigotries. "democracy" working because the electors could exclude and oppress some Other.

That’s depressing AF, but if you read Calhoun’s speech on the Oregon Territory, it is pretty clear that he thought having a permanent underclass of Black people stabilized class relations Southern society.

Yes, exactly.

People don't understand the difference between democracy and American Democracy. Like the difference between capitalism and American Capitalism. Other countries employ similar systems without cannibalizing their own society from the inside out. It's the "American" part that makes the difference.

Would it be accurate, for example, to say the US only achieved universal suffrage in 1965, so it's only really about as old a democracy as Botswana.

In name only, even? Universal suffrage, that is.

unfortunately, a lot of people use this to argue "it'll only be exactly as bad as it's always been, so there's no point in avoiding the outcome"

When it ceases to be a meaningful democracy for anyone, it tends to become something far worse for minorities and oppressed classes.

worse than discrimination, hate crimes and laws made to fuck them over specifically? Because that happens regardless of the president's party.

Yes, all of that gets bumped up a level or several. Constraints removed, scapegoating intensified.

at best we're a partial democracy for like, a few things in society (I get to vote for my county comptroller 🫡🫡🫡) . idk, democracy lite? electoral authoritarianism?

The Confederacy was a proto-fascist regime.

And it isn't ancient history. In my lifetime, black people weren't ALLOWED to live in nice neighborhoods, go to good public schools, or hold management jobs. LEGALLY 2nd class. And the attitudes that created that didn't just disappear when the laws changed.

democracy in it's truest sense is not possible until it is global and unlimited so until then we must make do with making our way toward that goal by putting our best foot forward

Sssshhhh. White people don't know.

I’ve been talking to my therapist about doom and gloom lately and I think this is one thing that has really helped put things into perspective.

J6 was his attempt at a March on Rome. He no longer needs to try that.

I don't think it's any accident that one of their top priority policies is to disenfranchise as many Black people as possible.

the terrifying thing about Natalia Ginzburg's great All Our Yesterdays is how even a cataclysm like WW2 can just be assimilated into your day to day reality (or it kills you)

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