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I've heard multiple people now excusing the individual actions of IDF soldiers, since their alternative to wearing a uniform is prison. Fuck that. Choose prison over genocide. if you are unwilling to sacrifice for your values you do not hold those values.

It took until 1999 for the German gov't to recognize the courage of those who refused to fight. The linked article has a number of points very related to Israel and Gaza, especially about power differentials and war, but relevant here is how men being unwilling is sneered at even by many liberals.

In Germany you can find several rather unique war memorials "To The Unknown Deserter" in WWII On the plaque of this one in Potsdam is: "This is for a man who refused to kill his fellow men" Worthwhile related piece by Graeber, v relevant to Israel and Gaza: theanarchistlibrary.org/library/davi...

“'It doesn’t matter who started it' are probably six of most insidious words in the English language. Of course it matters."

to those people I say: google "fragging" then tell me why IDF soldiers don't even have that much of a spine.

I googled fragging and hell yeah!

Wow, TIL! I'd only ever seen that used in a gaming context, where it's used as a synonym for killing generally.

🫡

Thinking of her always 🥰

The only Swiftie I’ll fuck with.

That's who I was looking for

I'd eat a couple months in jail just to skip out on getting bullied in basic training, much less being told to participate in a genocide.

“i was only following orders” has never been an acceptable reason for participating in genocide.

Yes. What military service does is train people to obey orders without question.

Wait, where have I heard that before...

Yeah, also… have you SEEN Israeli prisons? I’ve seen dorms in public US universities that are worse.

Uh, did you even know they go to military prison, not civil prison? Something tells me you've never seen either in person, and as a refusenik myself I feel qualified to tell you you're talking out of your ass.

Uh-huh www.france24.com/en/live-news...

Rights advocates denounce 'systemic abuse' in Israeli prisonswww.france24.com In the shadow of the war raging in Gaza, record numbers of Palestinian detainees are filling Israeli prisons, where they face

Yes. One would expect that, given Palestinians are subject to an entirely different system of law, they would be housed in different prisons and subject to different treatment than Israelis. That’s… how apartheid works.

pretty sure Israeli citizens are gonna get treated differently than the people they’re trying to exterminate

Refusal to join IDF is 30 days in prison I'm thinking that's an easy trade to not murder innocent civilians

Israeli Teen Jailed Over Refusing IDF Service Shares Releasetime.com An Israeli teen who was sentenced to 30 Days in prison for refusing to serve in the IDF has shared a release update.

If one has a conscience, yes. They send recruits back each time they refuse service, so multiple 30-day stretches until either the military judge or the recruit relents. Like the teen below. youtu.be/MHAE9C0qJB8

Meet the Israeli “traitors” standing against the war in Gazayoutu.be While opposition to Israel's conduct in Gaza is voiced around the world, in Israel support for the war is still strong, but we speak to one of only two peopl...

Still better than living the rest of your life knowing you murdered children

Hell yeah 💯

So do it. Better than activity participating in genocide.

and??? are you just gonna go "ah welp I tried guess I better go murder children"

Was that opinion attributed to me? I sympathize with the refusenik. I am also not Israeli.

that's the treatment of palestinians. probably the people that israel believes are human get better treatment

Wow not as nice as a dorm yea they'd really be the people most suffering in the area if they had to live there

Ah the “just following orders” argument 👍

That worked so well for Eichmann.

If that 18 year old woman who ran a fucking Taylor Swift fan account on tumblr had the courage to go to jail rather than join the IDF these grown ass men have no excuse.

like 5 people have quoted with that Twitter thread, and it's fucking iconic

She just blows all of these cry babies arguments out of the water. What she did was brave, but it also wasn’t the end of the world for her. She did her time and got back to her life, there are consequences but it’s not so bad that you can’t stand for something and go through with it.

"I was just following orders" was determined to not be an acceptable response or justification. Hm.

There has been many people who have refused to serve in the draft and after getting out of prison said they were proud to have been in prison instead of killing innocents. The people defending IDF service members following orders are fucking nuts. It really is demented. It is only 1 month of prison.

wasn't there swifty fan account who went to jail because she didn't wanna serve the idf?

www.vice.com/en/article/g...

I remember that too, she was one of several people online who got famous for refusing to serve. Many people even use it as a badge of honor and became famous bragging about it. It is only 1 month prison sentence used standard by law, sometimes it varies to 2, which to many refusing isn't a long time

Yes

Like ppl were conscientious objectors during vietnam. Idk why people act like youre forced to do genocide

It's the same shit as "The germans were just following orders" (I'm literally Jewish, don't try and pretend this is some antisemitic nonsense). I'm sickened by how so many of my people think it's okay when jews do it but not when it's done to jews. It's wrong both times.

There's a reason why "just following orders" isn't a defense in cases of war crimes. You have a moral obligation to ignore orders to commit war crimes.

If it was me I'd try for political asylum in South Africa. Definitely jail before genocide though.

Did I see on the news recently that its only like a 30-60 day sentence? Going to jail is an incredibly tough decision for a teenager and I don't mean to minimize that but it's a lot safer than a month in Gaza.

Hold on I'm looking that T. Swift blogger that served time for refusing her IDF service.

so many people quoted this with (different!) screenshots of her and I love it.

I remember a podcast that touched on genocide refusers in 1941 Germany and there were pretty much zero consequences. They just got reassigned. Still less than 30% refused.

Didn't we go over "just obeying orders" not being a defence against things like genocide before? I feel like it was after another huge genocide...hmmm...

www.vice.com/en/article/g...

Meet the Taylor Swift Stan Who Went to Jailwww.vice.com The slammer could not hold back the power of the @LegitTayUpdates fan Twitter account.