Peter: i don’t think this drives sympathy for Trump exactly, but i do think fascists thrive amidst political violence. there’s a promise in fascism to harness the violence, keep it contained, and direct it at your enemies. the more chaotic things get, the more appealing that is.

i don’t think this drives sympathy for Trump exactly, but i do think fascists thrive amidst political violence. there’s a promise in fascism to harness the violence, keep it contained, and direct it at your enemies. the more chaotic things get, the more appealing that is.

mmmm sorta. there’s been a shitload of intramural violence in every fash movement ever

because fascism doesn’t deliver its promise. the ingroup is constantly redefined, new boundaries are drawn, and conflict is fostered. there is never real order, there’s only perpetual violence.

correct. but quite frequently the intramural violence hamstrings the fash movement rather than catapulting it to glory

Yeah, like, I'm not going to dismiss the idea of political assassination as bolstering fascism in general, but I'm not going to assume it's inevitable either (especially given what's being leaked so far makes this look like a red-on-red attack).

Like, the Nazis weren't purging the Strasserists in the street until *after* they'd seized all the levers of power.

Also even in government! Hitler constantly pitted his ministers against each other (and his generals, too) with the mistaken belief that if they were constantly at each other's throats the "strongest" would survive

Fascists can spin an assassination by communists or antifascists or even not-obviously-coded-weirdos as "We must strengthen the volk and the nation against these foreign terrorists". Much harder to spin intercenine fascist assassination attempts to this angle.

Like Fico.

“especially given what's being leaked so far makes this look like a red-on-red attack” I’m genuinely piqued by this! 👀 Can you elaborate, please, because I’ve not come across this yet.

All unverified so far, but there does appear to be footage of the shooter- white male, 20something, wearing a shirt of one of the biggest gun channels on Youtube, which is run by a conservative Baptist.

It's a cancer and it feeds indiscriminately

This implies that once in power fascism should be self-perpetuating, but in practice we’ve see very few long lasting fascist governments. Plenty of durable authoritarian governments of left wing, monarchy, and theocratic flavors but your real red meat tends to last like one guy’s term

Yes.

But everyone in the movement counts on not being labeled an enemy.

I see your point but I’m not so sure that helps Trump as much as remind people how chaotic a state the country was in during his presidency and that he attracts and invites that chaos. Could be wrong though and we are headed toward hell!

This is also my read. It matters that he’s not the president yet, too.

I mean people have pointed out Covid is what really lost things for him last time and I really don’t think there are too many voters who will look at this violence and be like, surely the guy who constantly talks up doing violent things will restore order.

You and me wishing won't make it so. Wish it would.

Well alternatively Trump gets elected and chaos is what ensues, so I’ll be messaging this reminder as much as possible up to the election. Especially because I highly doubt this is the last political violence we see before said election.

They are front-loading the violence in their group chats. It sexually excites them and they have minions to do the 'dirty' tasks.

I can't help noticing though...*they* keep calling him "President" t-word or "The President."

Yeah they always do that with former presidents.

Really? Not "former President" because there's only one "President" at a time? I guess I was wrong again

Yeah it’s an unusual situation but normally media calls anyone who has served by that title president, only qualifying when clarity is needed.

I recently read "The Coming of the Third Reich" by Richard J. Evans and one thing that I learned, or was new to me, was how much political violence there was in early '30s Germany, street fighting etc. I didn't think we were comparable yet (this was a few months ago) and hope we don't get there!

this is the one.

I know we don’t need fiction to tell us this, but Antonio Scurati’s novel about the rise of Mussolini captured this dynamic perfectly. The fascists create chaos, the socialists fight back once or twice and everyone is horrified.

I think people are going to be surprised at how...nearly impossible it is to feel actual concern or sympathy for Trump after he's spent the last 8 yrs demonstrating what a truly horrible creature he really is. Not one redeeming quality.

Trump - via 🔴💀🔴's lassaise faire gun-worshipping cultism - apparently barely escaped yesterday what the GOP has long promoted as🔥fine for America's school children & other innocents. #GunViolence is only justified when it happens to the many categories of people that MAGAts hate/think deserve it.

'Made violence his brand': Scholar warns of 'uniquely dangerous' Trump second term (Raw Story)l.smartnews.com A leading expert on far-right, oppressive governments around the world is warning that former President Donald Trumpwould usher in fascism in the United Sta...

it’s ok to say it drives sympathy for trump cuz it absolutely does.

Both major parties call for more "law enforcement," just differently configured. Neither expansion will be good for the person on the street.

The limiting factor here is that for a ton of people, Trump is a causal factor of the violence.

Reminder to everyone who either didn’t live through it or have forgotten: Reagan’s popularity went up after he was shot (actually shot, not just shot *at*), while his politics got WORSE.

Teddy was also shot and still lost the presidency.

Trump has a lot more in common with Reagan, and his supporters are even more vapid & rabid, than Reagan's were.

It's not a guarantee. No matter how many want to compare this to Reagan.

I mean, your lips to god's ears and all, keep doing the work, don't snatch defeat from the jaws of victory & all that, but as I've said here & elsewhere, when a cult leader is threatened, his followers get even more dangerous, and that's mainly what I'm worried about.

all true, but i’m not sure if his rabid supporters getting more violent against random people will sway the swing voters.

With regular people, I don't think this will increase their fondness for him. Probably not even sympathy. Should he get a consolation prize of the presidency because of this? Doesn't change what he wants to do to this country.

I would love the framing of this to be analogous to an idiot who bought a gun he had no idea how to use and it went off unexpectedly. He was hoping to connect with the Proud Boys and ended up connecting with a John Hinkley because he's a violent, fascist idiot.

have you bothered to do any basic research on this subject before making loud public statements about it

This should focus everyone else’s minds. This election isn’t a reality show. We cannot let that man back in the White House.

That’s what’s going to happen. He will weaponize it and they will distribute the erroneous photo like they are marines hoisting the flag at Iwo Jima and all sorts of bullshit and have old ladies and knitting circles praying for his bent ass. It galls me

Glad Biden has to have 15 micro naps a day to not slur his speech. I think he'll be ready to combat the chaos.

The more appealing the threat is to those in its enthrall. Those who cling to the myth of centrism are not swayed to violence but away from it. And it certainly will make more of the peaceful unengaged vote.

Chaos is a ladder.

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