Popehat: I don’t think it’s an exaggeration at all to say the decision threatens the Republic. I might not have said so in 2015, before I saw how triumphantly lawless and autocratic the President could be, and how so many people would applaud it or at least shrug.

I don’t think it’s an exaggeration at all to say the decision threatens the Republic. I might not have said so in 2015, before I saw how triumphantly lawless and autocratic the President could be, and how so many people would applaud it or at least shrug.

My friend and colleague Ken White has written a great thread describing some (but far from all) of the enormous problems with today's decision by Chief Justice Roberts granting Donald Trump criminal immunity on grounds never before accepted by any court. Today's decision threatens the Republic.

If anyone wants to understand why Mexico has such problems with corruption, it's LITERALLY because their Constitution actually PROHIBITS prosecuting presidents, sitting or retired. That has meant Mexican presidents can and thus generally do whatever they want, legal or not.

I want to add that the corruption goes up to and includes murder. Most Mexicans believe that presidential candidate Luis Donaldo Colosio Murrieta was assassinated on the orders of the PRI and President Salinas: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Do...

Luis Donaldo Colosio Murrieta - Wikipediaen.wikipedia.org

Also, BTW, Lopez Obrador, who has been roundly criticized in the American press as a demagogue with Trumpian tendencies, tried to get the law changed to allow presidents to be prosecuted for past corrupt acts. It passed, but without the required quorum: peoplesdispatch.org/2021/08/02/m...

Majority in Mexico voted to prosecute former presidents, but the turnout was insufficient : Peoples Dispatchpeoplesdispatch.org According to a quick count by Mexico’s National Electoral Institute (INE), an overwhelming majority of voters voted in favor of investigating former presidents. However, the turnout to make the result...

The US AIPACracy corrupts all politicians. Mexico at least does not have AIPAC that bribes all members of Congress. The ones who don't want to be corrupted "die" (or their families).

The effects on behavior of people other than Trump could be pretty dangerous too bsky.app/profile/nste...

So there’s the decision as a legal document, and the legal consequences that come from it. Then there’s the message that MAGA supporters take from it. I bet some of them already see the message as “the law is ours now.” What will they do now? Will they allow black people in swing states to vote?

www.rollingstone.com/politics/pol...

‘It’s Like Christmas’: Team Trump Stunned by Massive Supreme Court Immunity Winwww.rollingstone.com Conservatives are planning to use the Supreme Court’s immunity decision to help them implement Trump’s extreme policy agenda, sources say.

At this pace, those purges of university faculty may come a lot quicker than anticipated.

They'll be like Mao and send them to work in prisoner ag labor.

Also [twisting the knife] that "institutionalists" like AG William Barr would sell out all previously held commitments to the rule of law in order to bask in the glow of office under Donald Trump.

Now to check on what those outspoken institutionalists Conway and Wittes are saying.

I don’t think it merely “threatens” the republic. I think it marks the republic’s end. I hope I’m wrong, but short of finding the will to pack the court or Biden taking them up on some of the extreme powers they grant to presidents, I’m having trouble coming up with a more optimistic gloss on it.

And unfortunately Biden pretty much said he won't do anything in his little 5 minute speech in response to the decision

Yeah, I think it's lights out.

Frankly, it's a death sentence for any semblance of representative democracy in this country, activated upon the election of the next GOP president.

It's just so grim, man.

Quick question: is there any other democracy that lets its executive do crimes with impunity?

The ones that collapsed, mostly

Ha, Mexico (see my other comment in this thread).

LOL, I have been arguing for years that Trump is really a Cacife, and that Nazi Germany is the wrong model. You have to look to Latin America (also maybe a lil Franco) to really understand where we’re heading).

Ironically, Mexico seems to be making slow, clawing progress. It's weird to see US media point to things like the presidential prosecutions referendum and say "AMLO is doing this to get revenge on his political rivals" instead of "functioning democracies don't have presidents who are above the law."

Yes….the thing that Americans do not understand is how political corruption destroys EVERYTHING. And it’s such a huge pain to dial it back, if you ever can. The Supreme Court just made corruption legal. So we are cooked. Everything is going to fall apart and kill us.

Falangists

Iirc Bibi is currently dodging a corruption case

Ah yes, but there IS a case.

Yeah not totally up on it but it’s a big motivation to stay in power as long as possible

In fact Alito gave potential post presidential prosecution as a reason why a president might break the law to stay in power.. and used that as an argument for immunity

Hearsay; I think poland doesn't let prosecution start until their term ends. Only used so far for politicians assaulting cameramen.

It’s like a solvent - if left alone it will seep into every nook and cranny of government and society and dissolve the bonds of what held it together as a democracy

Waiting for a horse to be appointed to the Senate

And for the sequel, Miller et al know exactly what to do. That’s one of the scary parts: the incompetence of the first term will give way to people who now can pull the levers they want, aided and abetted by SCOTUS.

I'm scared. Like... actually scared. Not a rhetorical, hyperbolic statement meant for effect. For realsies, actual irl scared.

Same. I'm trans. I'm messaging friends that we need to plan when to run if sheltering in place is no longer viable. Spouse and I will discuss tonight. This is coming.

The norms of democratic self governance were a real thing, if unenforceable at the margins. And we needed them. And now that they’re gone, we need to start over from scratch.

I find myself darkly comforted by the fact that Trump *was* as lawless and autocratic as he was even when there was a threat of being prosecuted. It tells me that whatever else was holding this shit in check, “Trump’s fears of being prosecuted” were not the linchpin.

I don't even have smarminess. I'm... hollow. This will end badly, and on a very long time scale. At best.

Agree

Vote for the guy who does not need immunity.

Ken, this decision is effective at this moment, right? Doesn't that mean that Biden could order a DOJ investigation of the court on whatever basis he wants? It would be a shame if they uncovered, say, bribes.

But they already said bribes are fine last week.

pure coincidence I'm sure

True, but you never know what they might uncover, right? An excruciatingly detailed investigation of Thomas and Alito's finances would be fun.

Parachuting in, I wouldn't assume that's not already happening. The DOJ can't tell the SCOTUS what to do with regard to cases, but it can investigate potential criminal activity. Which I believe is what we're talking about here.

Yes, I think you’re right. At the very least, it would be incredibly inconvenient for the justices. But I think it’s clear by now that some ‘improper’ activities would come to light.

the worst part is just how blatantly it's intended to free Republicans and constrain the Democrats. Modern jurisprudence is crafted with the expectation of conservative capture of the courts, and if things like "official acts" are left up to the courts ....

there are so many things that trump was famously restrained from doing in his first term and this has to be seen as approval of all those

Jean Bodin's definition of a republic, which is pretty encompassing, *specifically* excludes tyrannies.

bsky.app/profile/merz...

So even conceding a *very* generous (but historically important) definition of the word 'republic', this ruling can easily be construed to mark the end of this republic.

I'm trying not to be alarmist but it feels that way. Roberts did everything but give him prima nocta. Of course, that might be in the next abortion decision.

Balls and strikes Unfortunately the game is "Let's Start a Civil War"

Trump revealed that so much of Presidenting is based on norms and not law, and the SC is just ... solidifying that? Pretending there won't be another norms-breaker elected?

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