Robert Black 🥥🌴: Yeah like Agree or disagree with him (I honestly don't know which camp I'm in yet!), I'm pretty sure that what's motivating Mark Warner of all people is genuine, honest panic that Biden isn't up to winning this election He's not someone who like, has axes to grind with Biden

Holy moly www.washingtonpost.com/politics/202...

Sen. Mark Warner works to gather Senate Democrats to ask Biden to exit racewww.washingtonpost.com Sen. Mark Warner (D-Va.) is attempting to assemble a group of Democratic senators to go to the White House on Monday and ask that Joe Biden exit the presidential race, according to two people with dir...

Jesus fucking Christ this is collective insanity

I'd like to believe that but honestly I think it seems like Biden is too risky now.

I think they’re falling for a gigantic rat fuck both of mass hysteria, personally.

Agreed.

It’s a self fulfilling prophecy. Biden’s risky because everyone thinks he’s risky. We’re all in a Schelling tipping point game.

That I agree with. But it feels like Democrats aren't just freaking out because the media is freaked - they are legitimately questioning his ability to be reelected under these conditions.

Exactly. “Ability to be reelected” is directly linked to what everyone is saying about the risks of him staying in the race. Perception is creating reality.

But it's linked to the reality we all saw of him faltering at the debate. Beginning to feel like we have to choose between what they say or our lying eyes.

I mean, Trump is an insane felon rapist and a lot of people still voted for him. There’s no rule that says we have to honorably give a shit about if our candidate comes off as slightly addled, especially when we’ve got a perfectly good VP who can take over as soon as he makes it past the post.

Hey, I'll vote for a literal puppet on a stick if that's who the Democrats nominate. They can weekend at Bernie's him for all I care. But will everyone, is the question.

Yeah like Agree or disagree with him (I honestly don't know which camp I'm in yet!), I'm pretty sure that what's motivating Mark Warner of all people is genuine, honest panic that Biden isn't up to winning this election He's not someone who like, has axes to grind with Biden

OK but if Warner is worried about Biden losing (or Trump winning), where’s he been? He’s been more vocal about the threat of Tik Tok than the threat of Trump. He’s willing to go to the extraordinary measure of pushing out the Dem candidate last minute, but court expansion was too drastic for him.

I think Warner has probably been paid. Maybe even paid to help Trump win.

that’s all beside the point though.

I don’t think he has an ax to grind with Biden. I do think that jumpy Democrat politicians in the DC bubble aren’t exactly immune to mass hysteria.

Yes, for sure I mean for me it just comes down to What is the underlying truth of the matter??

This week SCOTUS killed Chevron deference, gave Trump total immunity, and Trump was credibly tied to Epstein, and it seems to me if your campaign somehow seriously can't find a way to then change the topic of conversation in the newspapers or stop your party panicking, what are we doing here exactly

Like, yes, ok, the media owns some of this. But also ... if you have a campaign, literally any of those are gigaquake events to change the tide and frame what you're going to do and take that message to the voters, and how exactly is it the campaign can't capitalize on it? That's the issue

Two things can be true. The media is being grossly irresponsible. The campaign is not meeting the moment.

Totally. The media is mean to Biden, and they are going to be mean to Harris. That's life. It sucks. Politics is dirty. But idk, part of campaigning is being able to help drive the news and get your message out to voters, not just be completely blindsided repeatedly by it.

Yeah.

This is why "Biden not running would help Trump win" has totally evaporated as a compelling argument. Even if the debate itself was recoverable, and I doubt it ever was, he's shown his team has no clue what they're doing and no credible plan to fix it.

I mean this in the nicest and most earnest way possible, not as a troll: what *specifically* would you recommend he do here?

It's easy to say "they should be able to get the NYT to cover something different", and it's a view I'm sympathetic to in a lot of ways, but it's also true that the media has its own perverse incentives here. It's not totally obvious that campaigns can force coverage.

Specifically to step back from the campaign citing health reasons and simultaneously endorse Harris as candidate

So, let me stipulate that I think it’s almost too late *now*, so I’ll give you my what I think he *could’ve* done: - Friday public events were fine (but immediately start private meetings with Congrssional Dems) - Saturday do some of the local radio interviews - 30 min Sunday morning TV interview

Dems (esp. Biden) are imho having a hard time putting court reform front and center because they never acted after setting up a Presidential commission on SCOTUS reform in 2021 that dropped its report the same year. 2.5 years just pissed away. www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/u...

www.whitehouse.gov

I think it's a category error to say that the media only owns "some" of this. It's become blisteringly clear to me that pretty much all of the "liberal" media has joined the NYT's campaign to drum Biden out of office no matter what. Even my wife has noticed that this is the NYT's policy.

Super spot on!

a democracy in which the media is not run by the state and the representatives arent puppets of the president

This is an indictment of the press. I mean, if you think the press would be covering things responsibly if Biden's people said they should cover these important things, or if Biden wasn't in the race, that's fine, but I think their behavior the past eight years suggests otherwise.

maybe we should check all members of the campaign team for cognitive decline

I supposed we could start by realizing that Biden doesn't actually control the media?

Sorry, what news credibly tied Trump to Epstein? I’ve seen claims to this effect on social media but no credible reporting.

I truly, truly do not care. I only care about winning so I don’t spend the rest of my life dealing with fascist GOP terror.

I mean, same, but if the underlying truth is that he's not fit to serve as president right now then he is going to lose the election Should he? Of course not! But that also doesn't matter

I've voted in a dead guy before and I'll do it again! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Un...

2000 United States Senate election in Missouri - Wikipediaen.wikipedia.org

Ne's more fit than Trump. He's more fit than anyone else they can drag out at this point.

I never said otherwise

That is very clearly not the underlying truth though.

There is a logic flaw there: Trump is DEFINITELY not fit to serve as president. If not Biden, Trump. Who already wasn't fit and already won once. See how that doesn't work?

Having lived through being lied to by Bill Clinton I can handle a little obfuscation about Biden until it's time to hand the reins to Kamala. I have no qualms about this as long as the GOP doesn't hold the White House.

People keep imaging what OTHER people might think and then behaving as if that is how they themselves think. Stop the meta bullshit!

*imagining obvs

The Times piece earlier in the week did have diplomats and foreign allies saying that, based on Biden’s performance in Europe, they would not trust him in the room with Putin. That sort of talk would be coming to the Senate Intelligence Chair from foreign leaders and diplomats too.

Which is a great reason to improve the odds of the guy who will give Putin everything he’s ever dreamed of.

Getting real tired of folks who act like saying you'd rather be shot in the foot than shot in the head means you're extolling the virtues and benefits of being shot in the foot, like, in general.

Okay but like You can understand that people might be concerned, as an electoral matter, if that's the best claim we can make for our guy?

I can. But I can also remind you that, A: beyond the metaphor, there are in fact some positive things to campaign on, and B: you don't have to buy the same things you're selling. Speak to your audience.

I mean I can make better claims! just when I see people saying "can't vote for a shot in the foot" this is relevant

*yes and* I have mad respect for the person who tries to wrestle the gun away instead of waiting for the pain

Also, complaints of this nature would be significantly more impressive if they were to come from foreign allies who were doing a better job of opposing Putin than our allies actually are.

Yeah, there’s a frustrating equivocation between “he might not be able to serve all 4 years of a second term” and “he’s a vegetable right now.” If the latter, he needs to resign and we manage without a VP I guess. But he clearly is doing a good job as president, so… let him run!

It’s 4 years too late for this shit. We got the horse we got. Get him to the finish line and hop on the next one.

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